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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: |
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October 22, 2002: "if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."
1992 "It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth".
"There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel." |
I can only say that I think you have no cultural knowledge through which to view these statements. We all can also find many Israeli statements of the same ilk. (see a previous thread....).
You confuse Arab rhetoric for what passes in the West. It isn't the same and there is a different view about "speeches" and statements when a politician in the Middle east speaks and when those in the West speak. This was discussed at some length when 9/11 first happen but was dropped shortly there after. You make take those statements literally but in Arab culture, they are "rhetoric"......So please be a bit more wise.
Further Hizbollah isn't my friend. If anything as a Jew, Israel is. But at present I detest Omert who has cowed as the new guy , to old fashion generals and the general militarization/trend of all aspects of Israeli society. I rally against the barbarity of Israel the strong -- being strong is being compassionate and taking the high position. At present they are salivating like dogs.......
Hizbollah can go rot for all I care but for the Lebanese in S. Lebanon and much others elsewhere, they are the only option to uphold their life, their land and way of being, if not their being itself.
Regarding the security council resolutiion. I was glad about that but also saddened how COUNTLESS resolutions against Israel for COUNTLESS atrocities , never saw the light of day because of the U. S. veto. Need I list them???? Think not.
DD
Summer wine, I disagree with some things you said but also a very wise post in my opinion. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| You make take those statements literally but in Arab culture, they are "rhetoric"......So please be a bit more wise. |
Yes, when Hezbollah states that it wants to destroy Israel and attack Jews worldwide, it's just a bit of youthful bravado! They're just joshing! Your apologetics simply know no bounds, do they? There are no depths that idiots like yourself will not sink to, to defend the genocidal rantings of terrorist mullahs.
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| being strong is being compassionate and taking the high position |
More meaningless, Rodney King-esque platitudes. So, when a terrorist organisation, funded and supported by 2 regional powers, one of which has stated numerous times that it will herald your destruction and which is developing nuclear weapons, launches an unprovoked attack on your nation killing 8 soldiers and kidnapping 2, Israel should be 'compassionate'. And you accuse others of being delusional? I think it is becoming increasingly obvious to people at all ends of the political spectrum, that you are a fruitcake.
What Israel is doing is completely justified, although civilian casualties are of course a tragedy, as they are in all wars. Israel cannot continue to live with the threat of rocket fire on its citizens and unprovoked incursions onto its territory from an organisation that is being used as a proxy by regional powers intent on destroying Israel. Hezbollah must be defanged, and the threat to Israel from this organisation ended. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| What Israel is doing is completely justified, although civilian casualties are of course a tragedy, as they are in all wars. |
Please be honest, civilian casualties are but an afterthought. Israeli military or yourself don't give a rats ass about them and devalue all but their "own". This is just as bigoted as Hezbollah and I call a spade a spade.
Seeing those Jews wearing both hats and gartels, dancing and holding weapons is horrid and I call it out as fundamentalism gone arye ......Just like the Arabs. Israel is in the mud with them and I shame them .....
I won't budge from my position of decency. None of this HAD to happen and people like yourself who believe all will be put right, some future good will be gained by killing are just murders in name also. If not the deed. Don't believe the buggers my grandfather wrote when he talked about those politicians saying if we just fight, kill, do this and all will be made well..............never works that way.
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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None if this would happen if Hizzbollah gave up their war.
All you need to know is what they demand and what they fight for that would answer it all. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Summer wine, I disagree with some things you said but also a very wise post in my opinion.
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Its sad to say but, wisdom has been in short supply in this World for the last 100 years.
I read a statement about an attack by the Ottomans against a village that may or may not have supported "Lawrence of Arabia". It was rather disturbing.
I have also heard a turkish cousin (married to a first cousin) talk about what historical life has been for minorities in their area of the world.
Wisdom and lack of hatred is always in short supply, so I support the underdog if they can be made to support peace. Israel is an underdog, just check population numbers.
Though thanks for a fair and understandable response. These days we seem to be too argumentative in our posts and less understanding of others.
Keep well all. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
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October 22, 2002: "if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."
1992 "It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth".
"There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel." |
I can only say that I think you have no cultural knowledge through which to view these statements...You confuse Arab rhetoric for what passes in the West. It isn't the same... |
This criticism is not unfair. Indeed, there is much misunderstanding, cultural and otherwise, between the U.S. and the Arab Middle East.
However, this goes to the heart of my criticism and, ultimately, my rejection of the kind of clutural relativism and other antiWestern, proThird-World ideologies the politically-correct Left proposes (and indeed forces down our throats by insinuating, if we do not accept it, that we are bigots or racists, etc.).
Why do we need to bend over backwards to make sure we are correctly intetrepting these -- in our cultural context -- intolerant, warlike statements coming out of the antiIsareli Arab Middle East, but, on the other hand, no one criticizes bin Laden and his merry men for lacking sufficient cultural knowledge to view U.S., Israeli, and the West at large's statements and acts more fairly and open-mindedly? Or, should not Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran's spokesmen respect our cultural context and take it into account, such as, for example, asking themselves how we might interpret what they are saying, before they say such things as Israel ought to be burned off the map -- for example, just as the Iranian president did before the United Nations recently?
Think about that the next time you see one of bin Laden's videos where he arrogantly and self-righteously wags his finger at the audience for being infidels and not accepting or obeying the dictates or Islam or Sharia law, or when the Syrian ambassador comes onto CNN and lectures the U.S. and Israel on morality, and where people like Al Gore and you usually respond by sitting back and nodding your heads "yes."
We should seek to understand cultural context in the Arab Middle East and elsewhere. We should give them the benefit of the doubt and try to work with them constructively.
But I think we also have a right to expect -- no, to demand -- that this be reciprocated. And I do not find that unreasonable in the least. But they do not do this.
Therefore, the antiIsraeli Arab Middle East -- specifically, their intolerance, and their unwillingness to grow beyond their own obstinate ethnocentrism -- is at least 50% to blame for the current difficulties in which they find themselves.
And before I let you go, please help me to appreciate the right cultural context for understanding 9/11, the various beheadings that we have seen, and the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers, among other things. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Bullseye!
And the US, Israel, and UK move slowly but steadily closer to being at guerilla war with 500 million people. Count me out. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Is Israel prepared to pick up the bill for this. They're a wealthy enough nation are they not?
Oil plant leak damages third of Lebanon's coast-IMO
By Stefano Ambrogi
Wed Aug 2, 1:53 PM ET
LONDON (Reuters) - Leaking oil from a bombed power station in Lebanon has damaged about a third of the country's coastline, the world's top maritime body said on Wednesday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/environment_spill_lebanon_dc ... etc ...
MAJOR ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| *BUMP* |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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If Hezbollah held a garage sale and sold off their rockets and assorted armaments, they'd have enough to pick up the tab, I'm sure.
It's amazing how you can- without provocation- attack a country and still get some people to believe you are an innocent victim.
"Ignorance is Strength"
Looks like your fears of an Orwellian future are self-fulfilling. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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I know who the victims are: The Lebanese and Israeli people, civilians who'd like nothing better than to get on with life, reservists who'd like nothing better than to get back to being civilians again.
But it's funny how you have consistently attempted to portay Hezbollah as innocent victims too.
Hezbollah deliberately targeted civilians again today, killing 10, wounding many others, and yet all you can do is bump up your older post about an infrastructure hit.
How typical. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I quite sincerely hope Israel and Palestine blow each other into fucking oblivion so the rest of the world can move on. I used to sympathize with the Palestinian cause but when they elected Hamas after Israel had started making concessions in the West Bank, I lost my faith in it. Israel is showing it's usual total disregard for human life and international law, so *beep* them too.
Last edited by Butterfly on Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think your posts help me more than you. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| I think your posts help me more than you. |
Help YOU, eh? How's that sweetie?
Also, how exactly do make the distinction between posts & the poster? |
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