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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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 Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
You assert that the govt changed this "looooong ago."
Show me.
Gopher, I stand corrected and was wrong. I admit when I am wrong. But I do recall McCormack (or maybe another talking head) talking about how Hezbollah's status was under review etc.....
NAVFC, you clearly don't understand the history of the region and I won't address your assertions because of such. You just sling mud and I suggest you brush up on your knowledge of the region.
To many others, I restate my thesis of "double standards" . I also restate my point that what most people don't like about hizbollah is that they are supported by a plurality of Lebanese, across relgions/faiths/tribes/trades and tribulations. I do not trust Syrian intentions but it is too convenient to label and stamp this on Hizbollah, they have nothing to gain from it.
Further, I do not suggest I applaud, cheer, or advocate the past or more violence of hizbollah. On the contrary. But I also understand the context (more than many others here) and how one will do horrible things when confronted with similiar extreme barbarity. Let's face it, we all would if we saw our own children blown up from drones above......
This is the point. All along. Essentially Israel is quite safe. It is for the strength of Israel to stop pointing the gun and foster peace. This is the only way there will be a real "tomorrow" in this land, Christ almighty.
DD
Finally through with millions of workshops , assessments and now will have time to filibuster. |
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Dont dodge the questions Dueebel. I didnt sling mud, the only mudslining got edited out by a MOD and then I diodnt use any. Your just dodgning me now. You made a assertion that Hizbollah gave up violence. You said they didnt rocket Israel.
I just showed you that both were false.
You were wrong on both counts, what do you say? dont make up this stuff about mudslinging becaue there ahsnt been any eyind what got edited out in ONE post.
Israel safe? Is that supposed to be a joke???
Israel is far from safe as can be seen by 2000-end of lebanon war of Hezbollahs history of rocketting Israel. By the PLO suicide bombers. By Hamas. All have threatened Israels safety. its not safe when a nations citizens have to go out and ponder if suicide bombers will strike.
It isnt safe when a madman who threatens your doom has a nuke program. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Gopher, I stand corrected and was wrong. I admit when I am wrong... |
Not quite enough, Ddeubel. You were not merely wrong. You were righteous and dismissive in making your point. And, if memory serves, this was not even the second or third time I or someone else has questioned your accuracy on matters of fact. This is a chronic pattern with you.
And, in this case, if you had only attempted to make a counterpoint, things would have been different. But as it is, I am going to advise you to check your emotional tone at the door, stick to just the facts, and be sure you are not gettting carried away and bending if not inventing facts out of whole cloth next time you want to disagree.
Might be less embarrassing for you when you are wrong. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| ddeubel wrote: |
| Gopher, I stand corrected and was wrong. I admit when I am wrong... |
Not quite enough, Ddeubel. You were not merely wrong. You were righteous and dismissive in making your point. And, if memory serves, this was not even the second or third time I or someone else has questioned your accuracy on matters of fact. This is a chronic pattern with you.
And, in this case, if you had only attempted to make a counterpoint, things would have been different. But as it is, I am going to advise you to check your emotional tone at the door, stick to just the facts, and be sure you are not gettting carried away and bending if not inventing facts out of whole cloth next time you want to disagree.
Might be less embarrassing for you when you are wrong. |
Now that's what's called a good spanking from Daddy...  |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Not quite enough, Ddeubel. You were not merely wrong. You were righteous and dismissive in making your point. And, if memory serves, this was not even the second or third time I or someone else has questioned your accuracy on matters of fact. This is a chronic pattern with you.
And, in this case, if you had only attempted to make a counterpoint, things would have been different. But as it is, I am going to advise you to check your emotional tone at the door, stick to just the facts, and be sure you are not gettting carried away and bending if not inventing facts out of whole cloth next time you want to disagree.
Might be less embarrassing for you when you are wrong. |
Gopher,
Go take a bath! I am not "embarrassed" and if you want unemotional debate then go coach a high school debating team.
I contribute substantially and more than many posters, provide info and links and further places of discussion. If saying I'm wrong is NOT ENOUGH well fine. I'll send my ring finger in the mail to you.
I say what I think and do so with the mind I was given and have nurtured. I don't look at issues through the telescope of an ivory tower.
You (for that matters) provide sanitized information from govt folders and a smattering of socio-political, born and funded American comment.
I suggest those that can't swallow my posts, simply don't have the stomach for it. I leave a lot out because I would rather have faith in the reader's intelligence than not.
I suggest Gopher, you come down from your mountain top and do a walkabout in the real world. You'd be amazed what is there and who and how others can contribute. The world is not just made of your paint by number, hygenic sentences of political blandness.
DD |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
Not quite enough, Ddeubel. You were not merely wrong. You were righteous and dismissive in making your point. And, if memory serves, this was not even the second or third time I or someone else has questioned your accuracy on matters of fact. This is a chronic pattern with you.
And, in this case, if you had only attempted to make a counterpoint, things would have been different. But as it is, I am going to advise you to check your emotional tone at the door, stick to just the facts, and be sure you are not gettting carried away and bending if not inventing facts out of whole cloth next time you want to disagree.
Might be less embarrassing for you when you are wrong. |
Gopher,
Go take a bath! I am not "embarrassed" and if you want unemotional debate then go coach a high school debating team.
I contribute substantially and more than many posters, provide info and links and further places of discussion. If saying I'm wrong is NOT ENOUGH well fine. I'll send my ring finger in the mail to you.
I say what I think and do so with the mind I was given and have nurtured. I don't look at issues through the telescope of an ivory tower.
You (for that matters) provide sanitized information from govt folders and a smattering of socio-political, born and funded American comment.
I suggest those that can't swallow my posts, simply don't have the stomach for it. I leave a lot out because I would rather have faith in the reader's intelligence than not.
I suggest Gopher, you come down from your mountain top and do a walkabout in the real world. You'd be amazed what is there and who and how others can contribute. The world is not just made of your paint by number, hygenic sentences of political blandness.
DD |
Santized? Your the one claiming Hezbollah didn't attack israel after the 90s, which I proved to be complete BS yet you have yet to answer to it. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Israel safe? Is that supposed to be a joke??? |
Wasn't a joke.
Also please please please show me instances of Hizbollah rocketing Israel prior to the massive bombing by the IDF and their killing of thousands of civilians. The rocketing has come from Palestine and to my knowledge there has not been any rocketing from Lebanon previous to the Israeli withdrawl (even into the contencious Sheeba Farms region)>
Suicide bombers indicate that people are desperate, as do the fire crackers that are sent into Israel. As are the stones the kids throw. It is all they can do. They have had all else taken away including the lives of many fathers, mothers, brothers in jails and in graves.
Israel is strong and should be the one broaching peace. Until that happens and Israel starts down a path that isn't ruled by military fiat -- there will be no cessation of hostilities, no peace and no tomorrows...
Further, Hizbollah has the political blessing of the Lebanese people and consistently, polls indicate that 80% + of all Lebanese support them (in general. I am sure they do disagree with some things). Hizbollah has also condemned previous terrorism and is defensive in nature. They have consistently declared that they want a two nation solution (Israel / Palestine) and this has been lost on many people. Their "aggression" comes from the defense of their people and NOT as an attack on Israel , attempting to drive it into the sea. This is lost on many people. And those who say Israel had the right to kill so many -- you are wrong. The moral equivalency and crazy arguements of Israel's govt. just show how far they are from reality and have bought wholesale the military culture they are now chained by....
DD |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Israel safe? Is that supposed to be a joke??? |
Wasn't a joke.
Also please please please show me instances of Hizbollah rocketing Israel prior to the massive bombing by the IDF and their killing of thousands of civilians. The rocketing has come from Palestine and to my knowledge there has not been any rocketing from Lebanon previous to the Israeli withdrawl (even into the contencious Sheeba Farms region)>
Suicide bombers indicate that people are desperate, as do the fire crackers that are sent into Israel. As are the stones the kids throw. It is all they can do. They have had all else taken away including the lives of many fathers, mothers, brothers in jails and in graves.
Israel is strong and should be the one broaching peace. Until that happens and Israel starts down a path that isn't ruled by military fiat -- there will be no cessation of hostilities, no peace and no tomorrows...
Further, Hizbollah has the political blessing of the Lebanese people and consistently, polls indicate that 80% + of all Lebanese support them (in general. I am sure they do disagree with some things). Hizbollah has also condemned previous terrorism and is defensive in nature. They have consistently declared that they want a two nation solution (Israel / Palestine) and this has been lost on many people. Their "aggression" comes from the defense of their people and NOT as an attack on Israel , attempting to drive it into the sea. This is lost on many people. And those who say Israel had the right to kill so many -- you are wrong. The moral equivalency and crazy arguements of Israel's govt. just show how far they are from reality and have bought wholesale the military culture they are now chained by....
DD |
HELLO? DDUEBEL?!
I POSTED THE LINKS UP! THERE IN THIS THREAD! To news stories iof Hizbollah ROCKETTING ISRAEL.
Palestine as you mentioned Rockets Israel from the south using Qassam Rockets. hezbollah does it from the north using the slightly better Katushya rocket.
Hell they even did it as they were raiding Israel to get the soldiers.
Defense my rear. Israel WITHDREW from Lebanon in 2000, and Hezbollah attacked.
If Hizbollah was merely a Lebanese defense organization, the attacks would have stopped there. Israel out of Lebanon, mission accomplished.
But it didnt.
"This is lost on many people. And those who say Israel had the right to kill so many -- you are wrong"
As a result of Hezbollah agression israel has the right to destroy Hezbollah where ever it can find it. Its a shame so many have died while they did this, but it was avoidavble- if only Hezbollah wouldnt have done what they did.
DDuebel, in war there is no magical casualty limit. Hezbollah attacked Israel and Israel responded. By targettting Hezbollah who had shacked up in beirut.
Their bases, HQ, armoies, all targetted.
As far as the true civilian casualties go, blame Hezbollah, for placing there facilities deliberately near such for propoganda purposes.
But again there is no magical casualty limit.
You think Israel is going to stumble on a huge Hezbollah base, but then say
"Oh, no we cant attack..we have already killed X amount of people, we cant go anymore, the limit is reached"
War isnt Hunting DDuebel. There is no tag limit. Its about reducing the threat to Israel.
If damaging Hezbollah enough to secure Israel menas they have to destroy 1 billion dollars in structures and have how ever many die , its not their fault. Its jsut simply how Hezbollah set up.
Also DDuebel, you ignore it but Israel HAS PRESSED for peace, many times.
Let us go back to the year 2000. Israel made a unprecedented offer. All fo the West bank, gaza, and Half of Jerusalem for a PLO state. They said no, and ratchetted up the terror level. So don't tell me Israel is n't pressing for peace.
They wanted Israel out of Lebanon. It was so. They wanted Israel out of Gaza, and they left, kicking all of their own people out of their homes.
And for these gestures of peace how is Israel repaid? with bombing and rocket attacks?
Also, strange you make the "Israel is strong" and safe argument. Its as if your saying they cant stop the situation. yet...the mightiest army in the world, OUR army, the US army is having the same troubles in Iraq, and you laud often how hopless the situation is. Seems like you do a 360.
Ill say it again:
Israel WITHDREW from Lebanon in 2000, and Hezbollah attacked.
If Hizbollah was merely a Lebanese defense organization, the attacks would have stopped there. Israel out of Lebanon, mission accomplished.
But it didnt.
The links are in a post to you on page 3 of this thread. |
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