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Nation Within Canada
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laogaiguk wrote:
BJWD wrote:
And I just love the pissin contest you two are in.

But, from a public policy standpoint, you don't create programs that affect many people if only a small group are harmed from its not existing. If it is about the ultra poor then have programs for the ultra poor. You don't need a program that is for "all Canadians". That reeks of social engineering and ideological posturing.

In other words, just because you grew up dirt poor doesn't mean that I will want my kids to attend a government regulated daycare, so don't make us create "spots" for them in those facilities. We can deal with your needs without such a massive expense.


You want an unregulated daycare? Are you high at the moment?


Yes, I want unregulated daycare, homecare, healthcare, foodcare, shoecare and the restcares I can think of. And no, I'm not high. I am, however, able to see the state for the festering crapshoot that it is.

Sometimes the fix is worse than the disease.
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BJWD wrote:


Yes, I want unregulated daycare, homecare, healthcare, foodcare, shoecare and the restcares I can think of. And no, I'm not high. I am, however, able to see the state for the festering crapshoot that it is.

Sometimes the fix is worse than the disease.


And that ends my part of this discussion.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another socialist down. Good times!
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BJWD wrote:
Another socialist down. Good times!



A Socialist as opposed to what a cold-hearted bourgeois capitalist? You can argue that Jesus was a Socialist, because he believed in contributing money to the community. The central idea of socialism is to help the larger polity, the public. After all, the larger public provides the soldiers, the workers etc... Day care also helps promote equality between the sexes, because it helps mothers work and take part in the larger workforce. That is something to consider. Also, believe it or not, some form of socialism does promote competition in many cases. If people, for example, had little access to higher learning, it would reduce competition among the populace, because you would have simply the affirmative action of oppulent parents. Also, people are not calling for unregulated socialism in Canada or communism, for that matter. That is more of a paranoia found mainly in some parts of Western Canada, the Deep South and West of the U.S.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adventurer wrote:
BJWD wrote:
Another socialist down. Good times!



A Socialist as opposed to what a cold-hearted bourgeois capitalist? You can argue that Jesus was a Socialist, because he believed in contributing money to the community. The central idea of socialism is to help the larger polity, the public. After all, the larger public provides the soldiers, the workers etc... Day care also helps promote equality between the sexes, because it helps mothers work and take part in the larger workforce. That is something to consider. Also, believe it or not, some form of socialism does promote competition in many cases. If people, for example, had little access to higher learning, it would reduce competition among the populace, because you would have simply the affirmative action of oppulent parents. Also, people are not calling for unregulated socialism in Canada or communism, for that matter. That is more of a paranoia found mainly in some parts of Western Canada, the Deep South and West of the U.S.


Oh calm down. I was, as the British say, taking the piss (a piss?).

But, your naivet� about the "idea" of socialism is breathtaking. The "idea" is control. But your defense of a dead idea is charming, none the less.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:42 am    Post subject: Quebec "Nation" Raises Native Indian Ire Reply with quote

Quebec "Nation" Raises Native Indian Ire
By Allan Dowd
Tue Nov 28, 5:16 PM ET

VANCOUVER, British Columbia (Reuters) - Canada's indigenous peoples are feeling a bit snubbed by Parliament's decision to recognize Quebecers as a "nation" within a united Canada and not them too.

Native Indian leaders say the vote in the House of Commons, which has helped reignite debate over the role of French-speaking Quebec within largely English-speaking Canada, ignored the peoples who lived in North America before European settlers arrived Idea

"If it is good for the Quebecois, and we have no objection to that, then it is good enough for us," Phil Fontaine, national chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said on Tuesday, a day after lawmakers overwhelmingly approved the measure.

Native Indians are usually referred to within Canada as the First Nations. Canada's aboriginals include native Indians, Metis -- descendants of Indians and early French settlers -- and the Inuit people of the Arctic region.

Indigenous people make up only about 3 percent of the country's population, but suffer greater poverty and health problems than non-aboriginal Canadians.

Canada's courts have ruled Indian bands and nations must be consulted over the use of resources within their historic territories, but what power that gives them is still subject to interpretation and numerous lawsuits.

Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper proposed the surprise motion on Quebecers after the separatist Bloc Quebecois introduced a measure to recognized Quebecers as a nation but did not include the words "within a united Canada."

Harper said his measure was a recognition of Quebecers distinctiveness in areas such as language, but that it carried only symbolic weight.

"We also have (our own) languages and distinct cultures," said Grand Chief Edward John, of the First Nations Summit, which includes more than 40 British Columbia native groups now negotiating land treaties with the government.

British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell, a non-aboriginal who has become a vocal advocate of aboriginal issues, warned in an open letter to Harper before Monday's House of Commons vote that Ottawa risked further marginalizing indigenous people.

But backers of the proposal said the fear was unfounded because the rights of native peoples are already recognized in Canada's Constitution.

"They are as much a part of Canada as are the Quebecois as are the rest of Canadians," Deepak Obhrai, a Conservative lawmaker from Alberta, said in the parliamentary debate.

Fontaine chided the legislators for bringing up the measure in the first place, and complained that the lack of clarity in the parliamentary debate only confused the issue for both Quebecers and aboriginals.

The Bloc Quebecois had initially opposed Harper's measure, but changed its mind and joined the Conservatives, Liberals and New Democrats in backing the motion, saying it could used to advance the separatist cause.

"The point we were trying to make is that one doesn't go about nation-building that way," Fontaine said.

(With reporting by Randall Palmer in Ottawa)
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