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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Of course it does, and so what? Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Costa Ricans, and other Latinos who settle in the U.S. tend to be bilingual and want to learn English quickly. Not so for most Mexican immigrants, especially the illegal ones. They get by on survival English, if any. |
Incorrect.
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?id=282
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| The vast majority of first-generation immigrants who come to the US as children speak English well. Among first-generation Mexican children, 21 percent do not speak English well; among first-generation Chinese children, the comparable figure is 12 percent. In other words, 79 percent of first-generation Mexican children and 88 percent of Chinese speak English well (or very well). |
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| The level of English monolingualism is lower among Hispanics, but, at 72 percent, it is still a clear majority. Sixty-eight percent of third-generation Cubans and 71 percent of third-generation Mexicans speak only English. Third-generation Dominicans are an exception, with just 44 percent monolingual in English at home. |
| steve0 wrote: |
| This is unprecedented in American immigrant history and is frankly quite self-serving. |
Incorrect.
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| For example, German speakers in the Midwest were successful in maintaining their mother tongue across generations. They founded many public school systems that were bilingual in English and German; such schools lasted until World War I. French Canadians in New England used bilingual and French-speaking parochial schools as an anchor for maintaining French, which was widely spoken until the 1950s. |
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Conclusion
The language assimilation patterns of today are not precisely those of the early 20th century, but they do not appear to pose any threat to English as the language that cements the nation and its culture.
The high migration level of the 1990s did not affect the fundamental shift towards English across the generations. Moreover, many of the main exceptions to the basic pattern are found in border communities where bilingualism is a historically rooted phenomenon, not one that has arisen from recent immigration. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Third, if you're so opposed to other cultures, why are you here? |
You are such a simpleton that you equate being opposed to mass immigration as 'being opposed to other cultures'. Or perhaps, as can be seen from some of your other posts, you like to twist people words.
I am not opposed to other cultures. I am opposed to the mass immigration of unassimilable cultures into the West. To make any comparison between mass immigration and twenty somethings teaching EFL in the East is quite ridiculous.
Korea and Japan are indeed impacted by Western culture, that is true. They are not, however, blessed with the preponderance of ethnic ghettoes, race riots and the looming prospect of their societies being split, quite violently, along ethnic lines. However, they are blighted with Starbucks and Burger King. How terrible for them. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| the foreign books, the foreign films, and foreign ideas, is exactly what bigverne, stevie, and others are decrying. |
Unsubstantiated nonsense. If your going to debate with people at least have the decency to debate what they have actually said, rather than conjuring up your own strawmen. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
I grew up in a very cosmopolitan city with tens of thousands of Middle Eastern people that I would see and interact with every single day. I worked for them. I also had them work for me when I was a manager. I'm not just talking about a few either. I have known hundreds of Arabs in my life, if not thousands. NONE and I mean absolutely NONE (zip zero zilch) of the men showed me any sort of disrespect. In FACT, the vast majority were incredibly outstanding gentlemen with generosity that compelled me to shed a few tears in private (thinking, "why can't all people be this way). I still speak with Muslim people from around the world via the internet, emails etc. I have friends in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar etc. I'm overwhelmed with their generosity. So I'm baffled when I hear stories about Muslim women being beat. I certainly never heard stories like this around my community. All the women being beaten were white, by white men.
As a woman myself, I have found that white men are the most disrespectful and abusive to me and the people in my community. I'm talking about severe abuse too. I've seen and heard the worst type of stories - always white women being beat severly by white men. It's a real made up myth that white men like to put in the faces of women - that the white men are angels compared with Middle Eastern/Muslim men. All I can say now is that the Middle Eastern men have never EVER EVER showed me disrespect while all other types of men have done so, most of all white men (to extremes). |
Oh look, Big Bird got herself a sock |
For the record, I an no one's sock. Apparently you don't pay much attention to these boards. Before you make such a rash judgement call, you should really go and look up the history of the person's posts. I started with selling all my stuff in the buy/sell/trade forum right before I left Korea. See for yourself. I met quite a few people from off here too. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
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| So I'm baffled when I hear stories about Muslim women being beat. |
Would you like some evidence? Google might help..
You think I haven't heard/read all those anti-muslim pieces of crap out there?
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I certainly never heard stories like this around my community. All the women being beaten were white, by white men. |
"All"? Yes all!
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As a woman myself, I have found that white men are the most disrespectful and abusive to me and the people in my community. |
Sorry to hear that. Really.
Are you really? So what are you going to do about that? Pray!?  
Who, exactly, is your community?
What's it to ya, huh? Does it make any difference here? No!
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I'm talking about severe abuse too. I've seen and heard the worst type of stories - always white women being beat severly by white men. |
Some comparative evidence might be nice... Yeah, in your sick dreams, psycho. No decent person would ask for that type of bloody brutal evidence. Though, painfully hard to come by.
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It's a real made up myth that white men like to put in the faces of women - that the white men are angels compared with Middle Eastern/Muslim men. |
Are you sure about that.. yep You might want to consider the possibility that what happens in the "community" stays in the "community". Don't forget that I lived there and I can assure you ... You are being very silly, relying on hear/say. I'm not talking about "hear/say." Did you read? I said what I experienced and saw others experience.
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All I can say now is that the Middle Eastern men have never EVER EVER showed me disrespect while all other types of men have done so, most of all white men (to extremes). |
Sorry to hear that. First you say this: No female ever deserves disrespect, regardless of her anything. BUT, you may want to search for some comparative, country-country, culture-culture data on spousal abuse, or VAW in general.
Keep in mind too, that "white" is a socially constructed term. Then you say this: I don't think you are exactly well versed in either argumentation or, well, anything at all, but when you speak of "white" you are actually lumping dozens of separate cultures together as one, and ascribing the bad traits of the worst apples to the whole. For example, Swedes and Finns are notorious for beating their women after a good drunk, while the French typically wouldn't dare. You might want to refine your positions a tad further. How about a European descended Latin American? They are likely among the worst in the world for VAW, and racially "white", yet not counted as "white", when "white" is typically being described. |
Get off this trip you are on. You seem very hypocritical and quick to get defensive. I wonder why? How many women have you abused? 1, 3, 7, or is the number too high to count. Maybe you don't even know when you are being abusive. People abuse others in ways that are just as bad as physical. There's emotional and psychological abuse that is reported to be some of the most severe forms of abuse and longer lasting than physical abuse. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Pray? To whom, exactly? The spaghetti monster? RT vishnu? Nah.
But who your "community" is, matters quite a lot. White is a big term, and the country, type, socioeconomics, religion etc etc are all quite valid for a situation such as this.
I had never once in my life seen or heard an actual case of VAW. Once, in a pub, some guy grabbed a girls arm a tad aggressively but got his ass so throughly kicked that that even she wanted it to stop. Korea, however, was a wakeup call. So was Turkey. I don't think that Singaporeans tend towards VAW, though.
In my community, in Korea, every single instance of VAW was a Korean. All of them. Every single one. 100%. All.
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'm not talking about "hear/say." Did you read? I said what I experienced and saw others experience. |
Honestly, I think you are a liar. You are hear/say, or trying to establish the first instance of. You came out swinging with a grudge. Liar.
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Then you say this: I don't think you are exactly well versed in either argumentation or, well, anything at all, |
I stand by that. I went through some of your posts. Not exactly a uber-capable one in the mind...
Your turn!
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| Get off this trip you are on. |
Ok. Done.
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| You seem very hypocritical and quick to get defensive. |
Do you know what hypocritical means?
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I wonder why? How many women have you abused? 1, 3, 7, or is the number too high to count. |
9636549844619874.3 I'm a white dude too. They were all timid little Asian broads too. Ain't you fired up now?
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| Maybe you don't even know when you are being abusive. |
Maybe. OR, maybe you just don't like whites? Racist!
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| People abuse others in ways that are just as bad as physical. |
Yes, they are racist. Like you!
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There's emotional and psychological abuse that is reported to be some of the most severe forms of abuse and longer lasting than physical abuse. |
Like Racists! |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Pray? To whom, exactly? The spaghetti monster? RT vishnu? Nah.
But who your "community" is, matters quite a lot. White is a big term, and the country, type, socioeconomics, religion etc etc are all quite valid for a situation such as this.
I had never once in my life seen or heard an actual case of VAW. Once, in a pub, some guy grabbed a girls arm a tad aggressively but got his ass so throughly kicked that that even she wanted it to stop. Korea, however, was a wakeup call. So was Turkey. I don't think that Singaporeans tend towards VAW, though.
In my community, in Korea, every single instance of VAW was a Korean. All of them. Every single one. 100%. All.
| Quote: |
'm not talking about "hear/say." Did you read? I said what I experienced and saw others experience. |
Honestly, I think you are a liar. You are hear/say, or trying to establish the first instance of. You came out swinging with a grudge. Liar.
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Then you say this: I don't think you are exactly well versed in either argumentation or, well, anything at all, |
I stand by that. I went through some of your posts. Not exactly a uber-capable one in the mind...
Your turn!
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| Get off this trip you are on. |
Ok. Done.
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| You seem very hypocritical and quick to get defensive. |
Do you know what hypocritical means?
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I wonder why? How many women have you abused? 1, 3, 7, or is the number too high to count. |
9636549844619874.3 I'm a white dude too. They were all timid little Asian broads too. Ain't you fired up now?
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| Maybe you don't even know when you are being abusive. |
Maybe. OR, maybe you just don't like whites? Racist!
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| People abuse others in ways that are just as bad as physical. |
Yes, they are racist. Like you!
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There's emotional and psychological abuse that is reported to be some of the most severe forms of abuse and longer lasting than physical abuse. |
Like Racists! |
Opps, I fed a troll. Sorry  |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Huff wrote:
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Nor do I think that many people object to the mere teaching of foreign languages in schools. Even in redneck Alberta, the main objection was that French was required for govenment employment, not that it was taught in the schools.
Isn't a certain level of English required for entry into almost every university in Korea? As well as for government employment? |
Sure. And I wasn't denying that. I was just saying that simply embracing ESL doesn't make someone multicultural. A lot of the unilingual Canadians I know would probably be at least as comfortable seeing a turbanned cop as would your average ESL-studying Korean.
I take your point about using Rushdie's definition of syncretic multiculturalism. But I do find it a little vague.
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| The syncretist vision is eloquently outlined by Salman Rushdie, who sees mass migration as a possibility to "(celebrate) hybridity, impurity, intermingling, the transformation that comes from new and unexpected combinations of human beings, cultures, ideas, politics, movies, songs," |
Movies and songs I get, that's tangible enough. But what exactly is entailed by multicultural politics, for example? A Korean-born MP and a Japanese-born MP trading invective about the comfort women during question period? I don't think that sort of fragmented politics is what Rushdie had in mind when he wrote the essay, but the passage quoted is so platitudinous that it kind of just invites you to fill in the blanks with whatever your imagination coughs up. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
Pray? To whom, exactly? The spaghetti monster? RT vishnu? Nah.
But who your "community" is, matters quite a lot. White is a big term, and the country, type, socioeconomics, religion etc etc are all quite valid for a situation such as this.
I had never once in my life seen or heard an actual case of VAW. Once, in a pub, some guy grabbed a girls arm a tad aggressively but got his ass so throughly kicked that that even she wanted it to stop. Korea, however, was a wakeup call. So was Turkey. I don't think that Singaporeans tend towards VAW, though.
In my community, in Korea, every single instance of VAW was a Korean. All of them. Every single one. 100%. All.
| Quote: |
'm not talking about "hear/say." Did you read? I said what I experienced and saw others experience. |
Honestly, I think you are a liar. You are hear/say, or trying to establish the first instance of. You came out swinging with a grudge. Liar.
| Quote: |
Then you say this: I don't think you are exactly well versed in either argumentation or, well, anything at all, |
I stand by that. I went through some of your posts. Not exactly a uber-capable one in the mind...
Your turn!
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| Get off this trip you are on. |
Ok. Done.
| Quote: |
| You seem very hypocritical and quick to get defensive. |
Do you know what hypocritical means?
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I wonder why? How many women have you abused? 1, 3, 7, or is the number too high to count. |
9636549844619874.3 I'm a white dude too. They were all timid little Asian broads too. Ain't you fired up now?
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| Maybe you don't even know when you are being abusive. |
Maybe. OR, maybe you just don't like whites? Racist!
| Quote: |
| People abuse others in ways that are just as bad as physical. |
Yes, they are racist. Like you!
| Quote: |
There's emotional and psychological abuse that is reported to be some of the most severe forms of abuse and longer lasting than physical abuse. |
Like Racists! |
Opps, I fed a troll. Sorry |
No prob, racist. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I wrote:
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A lot of the unilingual Canadians I know would probably be at least as comfortable seeing a turbanned cop as would your average ESL-studying Korean.
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Lest anyone think I'm giving a romantized picture of Canadian tolerance, I also know a lot of yahoos back home who scream blue murder at any officially-sanctioned displays of non-western culture. Mind you, some of them probably speak more than one language. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
I am not opposed to other cultures. I am opposed to the mass immigration of unassimilable cultures into the West. |
And where did the quote you objected to say anything about mass immigration and unassimilable cultures (whatever that means)? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
For the record, I an no one's sock. Apparently you don't pay much attention to these boards. Before you make such a rash judgement call, you should really go and look up the history of the person's posts. I started with selling all my stuff in the buy/sell/trade forum right before I left Korea. See for yourself. I met quite a few people from off here too. |
Big Bird, Ill give you one thing, you did set up a nice background story for your sock. I can still see right through you, though. As I said, you ain't that smart. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| I was just saying that simply embracing ESL doesn't make someone multicultural. |
I agree, but the impact of Western culture has been a lot more substantial then just ESL. Compare much of Asia with Asia from 50 years ago. Religion, holidays, clothes, mannerisms, food, and entertainment have all been substantially impacted. Now compare that with the changes made to Western society due to non-Western influences. Which culture has been altered more? Consider that one third of Koreans are Christian. That's substantial Western influence.
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| I take your point about using Rushdie's definition of syncretic multiculturalism. But I do find it a little vague. |
Yes, somewhat. Although noone, until now, has attempted to address that. I'll try to clarify later. A visitor has just arrived here. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| All I can say now is that the Middle Eastern men have never EVER EVER showed me disrespect |
I have to say that that has generally been my experience too. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
I take your point about using Rushdie's definition of syncretic multiculturalism. But I do find it a little vague. |
FWIW, the quote comes from Rushdie's "In Good Faith." Haven't read it, and I'm not sure it's still in print.
One things is obvious - everyone has a different definition of "multiculturalism." And trying to step around the minefield of revolving definitions is useless. They'll assign you whatever beliefs they want to, and then they'll attack you for it. |
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