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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| That's the major problem with our government in my opinion - it's like 50 little countries. |
As it was designed to be...and should be. |
As it was designed to be, no doubt, but not as it should be today. The republic was established for reasons no longer valid in our modern society.
Peace |
So what do you think should be in its place instead? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| That's the major problem with our government in my opinion - it's like 50 little countries. |
As it was designed to be...and should be. |
As it was designed to be, no doubt, but not as it should be today. The republic was established for reasons no longer valid in our modern society.
Peace |
So what do you think should be in its place instead? |
THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION 
Univision Republican Debate
December 9 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDMXJJsNUCU
Spanish Americans Crazy 4 ... RON PAUL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq6QA-_vkxw&feature=related |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| That's the major problem with our government in my opinion - it's like 50 little countries. |
As it was designed to be...and should be. |
As it was designed to be, no doubt, but not as it should be today. The republic was established for reasons no longer valid in our modern society.
Peace |
So what do you think should be in its place instead? |
A federal, democratic, socialist state.
Peace |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
Even so, I don't think we're strictly a republic. The existence of the electoral college convolutes the issue considerably. Some definitions state that the people "directly or indirectly" elect their officials, but that seems to be stretching the definition, to me at least. |
Hence democratic republic and not just republic.
| Quote: |
| We're definitely NOT 50 countries. If we were we would be more like the EU, where some laws are multinational, but individual nations still have the right to determine what is legal in their own country. Can Arizona legalized marijuana? Can Nevada legalize prostitution? No, federal laws preempt national laws, so we're NOT 50 seperate countries. In the future we may need to be for the sake of international competition. |
Well there is the 10th amendment, and EU law pre-empts national laws as well. each state has its own constitution and branches of govt mirroring the federal government's.
And Arizona did legalize marijuana, as did CA, albeit for medicinal purposes. |
Saying republic and democratic republic is pretty much redundant.
The EU's ability to trump national law is very limited.
Federal agencies regularly go into California and raid and arrest "legal" purveyors of marijuana. I've not heard of specific examples of that happening in Arizona, but I'm sure it's happening, there's just less media attention on Arizona.
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| That's the major problem with our government in my opinion - it's like 50 little countries. |
As it was designed to be...and should be. |
As it was designed to be, no doubt, but not as it should be today. The republic was established for reasons no longer valid in our modern society.
Peace |
So what do you think should be in its place instead? |
A federal, democratic, socialist state.
Peace |
Seoulunitarian, what would that look like? Have you read much Marx? I think deep down Marx was less of a Communist, a title he denied, and more of a futurist. Some aspects of society should be capitalist, others socialist, and still others communist. Ideally the goal is to seperate economics and government as much as possible. The opposite of what most "communists" have actually done, the NORK being a perfect example of that.
And what's with the "Peace" as a sign off? |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: re: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
Even so, I don't think we're strictly a republic. The existence of the electoral college convolutes the issue considerably. Some definitions state that the people "directly or indirectly" elect their officials, but that seems to be stretching the definition, to me at least. |
Hence democratic republic and not just republic.
| Quote: |
| We're definitely NOT 50 countries. If we were we would be more like the EU, where some laws are multinational, but individual nations still have the right to determine what is legal in their own country. Can Arizona legalized marijuana? Can Nevada legalize prostitution? No, federal laws preempt national laws, so we're NOT 50 seperate countries. In the future we may need to be for the sake of international competition. |
Well there is the 10th amendment, and EU law pre-empts national laws as well. each state has its own constitution and branches of govt mirroring the federal government's.
And Arizona did legalize marijuana, as did CA, albeit for medicinal purposes. |
Saying republic and democratic republic is pretty much redundant.
The EU's ability to trump national law is very limited.
Federal agencies regularly go into California and raid and arrest "legal" purveyors of marijuana. I've not heard of specific examples of that happening in Arizona, but I'm sure it's happening, there's just less media attention on Arizona.
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| That's the major problem with our government in my opinion - it's like 50 little countries. |
As it was designed to be...and should be. |
As it was designed to be, no doubt, but not as it should be today. The republic was established for reasons no longer valid in our modern society.
Peace |
So what do you think should be in its place instead? |
A federal, democratic, socialist state.
Peace |
Seoulunitarian, what would that look like? Have you read much Marx? I think deep down Marx was less of a Communist, a title he denied, and more of a futurist. Some aspects of society should be capitalist, others socialist, and still others communist. Ideally the goal is to seperate economics and government as much as possible. The opposite of what most "communists" have actually done, the NORK being a perfect example of that.
And what's with the "Peace" as a sign off? |
The only thing I know for sure is that it would not look like anything that has ever existed before in its ideal form.
Ideals are never reached, though, so for all practical purposes, I guess it would be something akin to Sweden.
Is there something wrong with peace?
Peace |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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No, but it seems... hokey to me. Like a person who recently got into hip hop and thinks it's still hip to say that.
And I suppose peace without meaning I do have an issue with. It's one of those ideals you mentioned. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Saying republic and democratic republic is pretty much redundant.
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Someone living in an aristocratic republic, oligarchic republic or theocratic republic might not agree with that statement. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
Saying republic and democratic republic is pretty much redundant.
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Someone living in an aristocratic republic, oligarchic republic or theocratic republic might not agree with that statement. |
couldn't have said it better myself. There is a difference between the two terms.
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No, but it seems... hokey to me. Like a person who recently got into hip hop and thinks it's still hip to say that.
And I suppose peace without meaning I do have an issue with. It's one of those ideals you mentioned. |
And this as well.
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| The EU's ability to trump national law is very limited. |
Eh not really. Are you very familiar with the EU? It is more encompassing and powerful than you might think. Yikes, I just sounded like a RP supporter describing the US gov't. Oh well, can't think of a better way to put it right now. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
Saying republic and democratic republic is pretty much redundant.
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Someone living in an aristocratic republic, oligarchic republic or theocratic republic might not agree with that statement. |
Touche. I overreached in my argument. I should have remembered Plato. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: re: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
No, but it seems... hokey to me. Like a person who recently got into hip hop and thinks it's still hip to say that.
And I suppose peace without meaning I do have an issue with. It's one of those ideals you mentioned. |
Peace without meaning? Isn't peace extremely meaningful on its own?
Peace |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| No, it's not. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| There never was a good war or a bad peace. (Ben Franklin) |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Ben Franklin
It all depends on your definition of peace. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Old boys have their playthings as well as young ones; the difference is only in the price.
(I don't think that relates, but it's cute and I couldn't find another BF quote to keep this going.) |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
No, but it seems... hokey to me. Like a person who recently got into hip hop and thinks it's still hip to say that.
And I suppose peace without meaning I do have an issue with. It's one of those ideals you mentioned. |
Peace without meaning? Isn't peace extremely meaningful on its own?
Peace |
Yes. He is just arguing with you for the sake of argument. I've always understood why you use 'peace' at the end of your posts. I respect it. But this is only cause I know your positions on most issues. |
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