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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Young women don't select for older men, which says something about what mother nature was intending. combination. |
It's seems to me that from general observations that women do end up with older men more often than men end up with older women in every cultural and historical situation I can think of.
Your unlinked/unreferenced example was not to the contrary. It just assumed the intentions and desires of the women from hearsay, but gave the impression that in general, young women still end up with older men. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| nateium wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Young women don't select for older men, which says something about what mother nature was intending. combination. |
It's seems to me that from general observations that women do end up with older men more often than men end up with older women in every cultural and historical situation I can think of.
Your unlinked/unreferenced example was not to the contrary. It just assumed the intentions and desires of the women from hearsay, but gave the impression that in general, young women still end up with older men. |
How many 16 year olds do you see walking down the street with elderly gentlemen (unless of course they are their grandfathers)? Women in their 20s may consider men in their 30s or (some) men in their 40s attractive, but a 20 year old does not generally leap at the chance to screw a 50 year old. He has to be extremely wealthy of have some other kind of prestige for a girl to consider it. In other words, she goes for him despite his age. I'm sorry, but (normal) elderly men are not attractive to normal young women. You guys are kidding yourselves that you are going to hit 50 and still be a hit with very young women. They may consider older mates, but in that case they'll prefer men in their 30s or 40s - unless they are very ugly and desperate, or the man in question is so rich or famous as for it to be a desirable trade off. Wake up - you've been watching too many French art movies!  |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you're really hammering home the point that young chicks don't find 80 year old men attractive - counterclaiming claims that don't exist still. Tell me though, where is it claimed that young women find 80 year old men attractive? Nowhere. Here is my original assertion about an 80 year old man:
| Justin Hale wrote: |
| Men of 80 can father children. Girls of 15 can mother children. Women of 40 cannot mother children. And yet society would have us believe that finding 40 year old women attractive is fine and dandy yet finding 15 year old girls attractive is so not kosher! It's just self-evidently ridiculous and fundamentally false. |
As we can see, whether young girls find crusty old buggers attractive is no concern of mine. I mentioned the 80 year old solely to emphasize the dramatic difference between male and female fertility (a difference which provides immediate evolutionary justification for males of all ages finding young women attractive and why it is beneficial for the species for older men to, potentially, reproduce with a young woman). That's the end of the 80 year old man issue, I hope, unless you want to tell me just one more time how disgusting 80 year old guys are.
| Big Bird wrote: |
| I think from your posts, you have totally missed my point. |
No. You missed my point. My point was that 80 year old men can reproduce normal healthy offspring - no more, no less.
| Big Bird wrote: |
| Yes, we all know that women's fertility declines more rapidly and more permanently than men's. I don't know why you keep reiterating it. A schoolkid knows this. And a school kid also knows that young girls don't fancy old grand-dads. Nature didn't intend it as the ideal combination. |
This �Mother Nature�s intentions� stuff is way off. Nature doesn't intend anything. Nature doesn't have intentions. Living things have intentions and subsequent generations inherit accordingly. Nature didn't will or intend sexual instincts. That�s not the explanation for the observations.
Secondly, I kept reiterating the fertility thing because I assumed it was in doubt. You claimed without evidence that 20s is the best, ignored the studies I gave which suggest greater complexity and grossly exaggerated the extent to which older paternity is of danger to offspring. If this was not suggestive of doubt, I apologize, but my experience of debating this with women previously was rather like debating evolution with a Christian fundamentalist - just a bunch of hand waving away of the evidence - and I rather suspected this time may be similar, especially considering the song and dance made over the 80 year old geezer. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
| This �Mother Nature�s intentions� stuff is way off. Nature doesn't intend anything. Nature doesn't have intentions. Living things have intentions and subsequent generations inherit accordingly. Nature didn't will or intend sexual instincts. That�s not the explanation for the observations. |
 Really? Bloody hell what a pedant you are! Anyone knows that Mother Nature is not a real character who sits around all day with flowers in her hair sculpting cuter and cuter fluffy bunny wabbits out of clay!
It's turn of phrase you anal bugger!
I haven't got time to reply to you right now, maybe later. |
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Shredd
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: Pusan, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| OP - Read the Game by Neil Strauss. It sounds like you need it. |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
| Maybe you need to make your intentions clear when you ask girls out on a date, cos they all seem to act surprised when you make a move. Tell her straight out you think she's hot, then ask her out. If she turns you down then at least you haven't wasted your time. Right now it looks like you're squarely in the friends zone and you need to get out. |
I'd just kind of assume it was implied when you ask a single female out to dinner or a movie or whatever and she's single too that it's a date. However, Korean girls need everything spelled out to them apparently. Nothing is implied. For example:
This girl named U-yeon. She suggested that we drink soju and makgeolli together at my home at about 2:00 AM. No one else was around. I figured "Wow, she wants to drink one-on-one with me at 2:00 AM with no one else around. I'd be an IDIOT if I wasn't reading this sign." So I tried to make a move. She absolutely freaked out, like she totally didn't see that coming.
I asked my Korean friends another day about it and they said the following two things:
1. In Korea, a single man and a single woman can consume copious quantities of alcohol together at the woman's suggestion, with no one else around, and that has no relation to whether she wants to hook up or not. It's a perfectly normal, friendly but not sexual in any way activity.
2. Apparently you can't kiss a Korean girl until she loves you. In the west, it's after the second date (I generally waited slightly longer just to be safe). In Korea, it's when she loves you. I'm going to guess a few months? So are there actually guys out there with enough persistence to just wait a few months, try and fail, move onto a new girl, try for a few months, and hope one of them won't freak out when he tries to kiss her? Given the odds of meeting a girl that likes the average guy, wouldn't this system mean that a guy takes years and years and years before he finds a girl who approves of him enough to even date him? That would certainly help explain the low fertility rate! |
This will sound sooooo wrong to most westerners, but in Korea,in my experience, no means yes. I have been with a few women here who were like the above post mentioned. "Lets go to a hotel for a drink", she says. Then things get started and she starts saying "Oh no, I can't do this", while undressing HERSELF!! I don"t know about your situation and how bad she freaked out, but sometimes it is just talk. Just coming out and kissing her is probably not a good idea either. Slowly get closer through some stupid game that involves touching somehow and let it happen a bit more naturally.
The guy who comes off as "the good guy" is an idiot. They don't do it to be nice, they do it to get laid. It always backfires. She may have thought you were friends. My theory is that any woman a man meets during or after his puberty is a woman he has considered screwing first and being friends with second. A very distant second. |
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
How many 16 year olds do you see walking down the street with elderly gentlemen (unless of course they are their grandfathers)? Women in their 20s may consider men in their 30s or (some) men in their 40s attractive, but a 20 year old does not generally leap at the chance to screw a 50 year old. |
You are correct of course. Although in the past it was quite common for teenagers to marry middle aged men. It still happens with men from developed countries and women from developing ones.
The only point is that women more frequently date/marry/have sex with men that are older than them. This is a human reality that transcends culture. |
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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Lots easier to date Japanese birds than Korean birds. This from 7 years in Japan and a meager year here in the ROK. Unless, of course, you are talking about the Korean birds hanging out in Itaewon. |
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