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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Were I driving a cab in Itaewon at certain hours, and were I Korean, I do not think it far fetched that I would prefer picking up Korean passengers.
Just sayin...convenience, simplicity... |
That's complete BS. I only get worked up about two specific issues related to Korea, taxis and sidewalk culture (thankfully I don't drive lol). Convenience and simplicity is a terrible excuse. The real reason is because they want high fares - many stop and say no when they realize my destination is just up the road (I tip the ones that do take me so it's worth their while). A secondary reason is because some drivers are still hung up on the idea that drunk foreigners + cab = crazy land by default.
Convenience and simplicity? That sounds like code for "I assume that person can't speak any Korean and can't be bothered."
Ah, and I remember one rather poignant event. I was having meat with an American friend out near Debang Station and we went to a little bar there afterwards for a bit of booze. It had been snowing that night, and when it came time to go, it was a bit too late for the bus or subway. There was barely a soul on the sidewalks while we tried to hail a cab, and no less than 10 blew by as my friend became infuriated. He invites me out to his not-foreigner-infested neighborhood and can't even get a cab to pull over. We ended up asking the bar staff to assist us, which was a far smoother process.
| northway wrote: |
| As for the scenic route, I'll again say that it's not specifically a foreigner issue, and if you speak enough Korean to tell them to go the right way then it's a lot less likely to happen. |
I don't think we're quite taking the same angle here. My beef is that they try to scam people who can explain their destination well enough in Korean. Taxis have tried to go the scenic route with me before but I'll call them out on it. Friends however have had some interesting stunts pulled. It had nothing to do with their ability to explain their destination, and it's more an assumption that the passenger doesn't know the roads well enough. Some drivers take the gamble and I'm sure some skim a few extra bucks out of it.
And no, it's not really a foreigner issue. I don't recall saying that. It just got lumped in with the way some taxi drivers won't pull over for foreigners specifically. |
Dude calm down...It was just an observation!
I too was passed by by taxis later at night when I lived in Busan. It was annoying as heck sometimes. Most of the time it was a short delay.
All I said was that I can certainly see how a Korean taxi driver MIGHT feel about picking fares in certain areas.
Now, lets get very real here: how many foreigners speak Korean well? Lets not embellish here, real hard evaluation of it.
My experience: very few. Sure some can mangle enough hangul to name their destination but add late night + booze disctrict and the ability drops off. Thats not a slam, its a fact of life.
Now as a taxi driver, picking up a most likely drunk fare (in the aforementioned itaewon late at night) means risk so perhaps, just perhaps he or she will choose to eliminate the potential language barriers.
As for high fares vs low fares...can you honestly blame the driver for choosing the higher fare? Come on now, he earns his LIVING that way...crap I would chose the higher fare each time! Taxis are not UN Human Rights Wagons, they are an occupation that drivers have to earn money so the higher fare wins each and every time.
Sure its annoying and in some instances it may be racially motivated. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Dude calm down...It was just an observation!
I too was passed by by taxis later at night when I lived in Busan. It was annoying as heck sometimes. Most of the time it was a short delay.
All I said was that I can certainly see how a Korean taxi driver MIGHT feel about picking fares in certain areas.
Now, lets get very real here: how many foreigners speak Korean well? Lets not embellish here, real hard evaluation of it.
My experience: very few. Sure some can mangle enough hangul to name their destination but add late night + booze disctrict and the ability drops off. Thats not a slam, its a fact of life.
Now as a taxi driver, picking up a most likely drunk fare (in the aforementioned itaewon late at night) means risk so perhaps, just perhaps he or she will choose to eliminate the potential language barriers.
As for high fares vs low fares...can you honestly blame the driver for choosing the higher fare? Come on now, he earns his LIVING that way...crap I would chose the higher fare each time! Taxis are not UN Human Rights Wagons, they are an occupation that drivers have to earn money so the higher fare wins each and every time.
Sure its annoying and in some instances it may be racially motivated. |
Not stopping - I think you and I are basically on the same page, but you're more accepting of the practice of taxis zooming on by. I don't think it's right for anyone anywhere to look at a person's face/skin color and pass judgement, even if it's something relatively benign like assuming the person can't speak your language. And when a segment of a particular kind of worker who provides a public customer service (of sorts) is doing this, I don't personally view it as an acceptable practice.
High fares - I totally get trying to make a living. Sometimes in Itaewon I flat-out say I'll pay a specified tip (when taxis actually bother to stop for me) so it's not like I'm demanding they represent the UN or some BS like that. But - and this is more of a Hongdae-specific gripe - when lines of them are parked on the side of the street all expecting high fares and those lines aren't moving, I fail to see how they're making beaucoup bucks because they're not working while they sit there.
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northway- No biggie. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| High fares - I totally get trying to make a living. Sometimes in Itaewon I flat-out say I'll pay a specified tip (when taxis actually bother to stop for me) so it's not like I'm demanding they represent the UN or some BS like that. But - and this is more of a Hongdae-specific gripe - when lines of them are parked on the side of the street all expecting high fares and those lines aren't moving, I fail to see how they're making beaucoup bucks because they're not working while they sit there. |
I tend to view taxis waiting around in Hongdae similar to taxis waiting around on Khaosan Road in Bangkok: they're waiting for the opportunity to rip someone off. If you're able to get a cab that's actually moving in Hongdae, they're usually very reasonable. The thieves are the guys who sit around waiting for drunks who can't be bothered to walk five minutes towards Hapjeong or Sangsu. Moreover, I've found that those guys sitting around are the only ones who demand more money after getting you to your destination if its out of the way (in my case, Anyang - which they knew going in). I've also found that their Gyeonggi surcharge tends to be significantly higher for foreigners than Koreans; when I'm with my girlfriend, they'll generally ask for an extra 3,000 or so on top of the meter (not bad), whereas when I'm with other foreigners (or alone) they generally ask for 10,000 extra and won't negotiate. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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you are both actually not correct about your taxi theories. the reason why they sit there at nite and only take certain people are because most of them are ending their evenings and are only going to a certain area because that's where they originated from.
i'm not saying that there aren't some waiting to rip people off or those who'd rather deal with people who speak korean, but the majority of them are doing what i just said. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
you are both actually not correct about your taxi theories. the reason why they sit there at nite and only take certain people are because most of them are ending their evenings and are only going to a certain area because that's where they originated from.
i'm not saying that there aren't some waiting to rip people off or those who'd rather deal with people who speak korean, but the majority of them are doing what i just said. |
I know that this is often the case, yet in my experience the guys sitting around waiting for fares tend to ask for significantly more than the metered rate more often than guys I flag down on the street, despite the fact that they're supposedly on their way home, thus why the crews that are stopped will have a specific driver for a given area. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Dude calm down...It was just an observation!
I too was passed by by taxis later at night when I lived in Busan. It was annoying as heck sometimes. Most of the time it was a short delay.
All I said was that I can certainly see how a Korean taxi driver MIGHT feel about picking fares in certain areas.
Now, lets get very real here: how many foreigners speak Korean well? Lets not embellish here, real hard evaluation of it.
My experience: very few. Sure some can mangle enough hangul to name their destination but add late night + booze disctrict and the ability drops off. Thats not a slam, its a fact of life.
Now as a taxi driver, picking up a most likely drunk fare (in the aforementioned itaewon late at night) means risk so perhaps, just perhaps he or she will choose to eliminate the potential language barriers.
As for high fares vs low fares...can you honestly blame the driver for choosing the higher fare? Come on now, he earns his LIVING that way...crap I would chose the higher fare each time! Taxis are not UN Human Rights Wagons, they are an occupation that drivers have to earn money so the higher fare wins each and every time.
Sure its annoying and in some instances it may be racially motivated. |
Not stopping - I think you and I are basically on the same page, but you're more accepting of the practice of taxis zooming on by. I don't think it's right for anyone anywhere to look at a person's face/skin color and pass judgement, even if it's something relatively benign like assuming the person can't speak your language. And when a segment of a particular kind of worker who provides a public customer service (of sorts) is doing this, I don't personally view it as an acceptable practice.
High fares - I totally get trying to make a living. Sometimes in Itaewon I flat-out say I'll pay a specified tip (when taxis actually bother to stop for me) so it's not like I'm demanding they represent the UN or some BS like that. But - and this is more of a Hongdae-specific gripe - when lines of them are parked on the side of the street all expecting high fares and those lines aren't moving, I fail to see how they're making beaucoup bucks because they're not working while they sit there.
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northway- No biggie. |
Look, its your choice to view this as you will and I for one will not dispute this. I see it differently and I am sure John Q over there has his own take on this.
To me what you describe is a time and location specific phenomenon (specific neighborhood, later at night). This is when I had cabbies pass me by on occasion. In the daytime however, it never happened unless the taxi was already occupied.
Anyway, good luck out there. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| [whereas when I'm with other foreigners (or alone) they generally ask for 10,000 extra and won't negotiate. |
In which case I hand them the exact fare on the meter and exit the car.
Should they become obstreperous out comes the cell phone and the camera is aimed at their license on the dashboard. That tends to quiet down even the most obnoxious. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I used cabs a few hundred times over there. Yes, the trick is to just flag it palm down without making eye contact by looking away, but seeing out the corner of your eye, quickly hop in, and say, "(place name) kajusayo!" And then tell the adjoshi driver which orun-whenjock way to go to drive there as his brain usually falls out the back door soon thereafter. This involves you understanding how to navigate Korea on the ground or just guessing at it and paying a little more in the end for such sparkling cheap curbside car service. Everyone stared in all situations, people laughed at me every step I took, and I just drew too much attention to the point it became horrendous. I then realized why celebrities hate being celebrities. Why do I want to subject myself again to this treatment after I promised I'd be checking it for good at gate 128 of ICN some 8 months ago? I'm drawn in with awe and fascination of this bizarre little cracker of a developing country on the rise to greatness and want to enjoy a rent free full salaried lifestyle offering benefits like paid vacations and the opportunity to see the world for what it strikingly really is vs. what Americans back home think or don't think it is. How so odd? Take care of what you wish for, for you might take on a warped reality going where you shouldn't.
Racism and jingoism are rife where it just always made every interaction in what is still largely a closed society an awkward challenging one, because out of their ignorance of not knowing much, they fear we are spreading diseases. Acting quickly in any situation before you are ignored or refused is how you roll and you'll garner tons of fake respect and laughs every step you take, but will college $200 and pass GO. Banking, phones, and school admin matters proved to develop our business skills to interesting levels, but leaving us wondering where and how in the world we fit into a career after teaching Korea how to become global. International relations involving Korea on every level is an extremely challenge and many of us here had epik pioneering moments that sound just too ridiculously unbelievably silly when repeated back home, but are so frustratingly true. It's actually become such a popular topic of discussion all across the states that everyone knows of their distant cousin that's currently teaching in Korea. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| r122925 wrote: |
I can only think of one experience like this in the 7 years that I've been in Korea. I tried to go to a random seafood restaurant with a friend (also foreign). The guy first tried to tell us "sorry no english menu". We said no problem, we can order from the Korean menu, and then he just told us to go away. There were plenty of tables available. The place wasn't even half full. It was certainly shocking at the time, but we just went to another restaurant across the street. Not that there is any excuse for this behavior, but it wasn't really a big deal.
I think the bigger problems are not bars and restaurants, but places that offer only limited services to foreigners or generally hassle foreigners.
Why do foreigners have such a tough time getting cell phone contracts? Especially long term contracts for the latest phones.
Why are there so many Korean websites that foreigners cannot join?
Why do foreigners have so many problems with banks? Why is it so hard to get a credit card, car loan, mortgage, etc? Why do they need to see new and different documents from me every time I walk in the door?
Why are the policies and rules for foreigners at various businesses constantly changing? And why are there even separate policies at all? (I'll give you an example of this. Last week I wanted to purchase an airline ticket from Interpark Travel. I went through the reservation process and got to the payment page. I got an error when trying to pay with my credit card. I called them up and they told me that foreigners can't pay with a credit card, only bank transfer. I told the woman "I've bought tickets from you several times in the past and always paid with a credit card." She said it's a "new policy"  )
This is the kind of stuff that makes living in Korea difficult. Sure it sucks that some bar or night club won't let foreigners in, but these things affect my daily life in a much more significant way. |
Went through a similiar thing with G Market a while back. I started emailing them complaining about it that it was discriminatory. If a Korean can pay with their card, I ought to be able to pay with mine. I was a real pain in thge butt. Now I can use my card. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I think if you have been here even on an E2 for a few years with steady employment, you shoudl be able to qualify for some things like a smart phone with no hassle and a lower limit credit card. I can agree that mortgages and larger loans should be reserved for F5's or maybe F2's with a joint Korean name. Giving a newly arrived E2 lots of credit is sheer stupidity. But when you have things to prove you've been here for a while, simple lower level credit shouldn't be an impossibility. |
The issue is that the E2 is at its core a short term one year sponsored employment visa for foreign workers. So working 4 years on 4 E2s is not like accumulating time as a resident when it comes to credit history or services. I can be a hassle to get certain things thats for sure. |
It doesn't matter. It shows we are going to stay here. If one job leaves, I'll just simply get another job and another E2. It means I will be here to keep making the payments and for them to collect from me for. It shows a pattern. Now if Korea stopped hiring English teachers and there was not much work, then I could see them being stringent. But otherwise, it shouldn't be a problem. My E2 has an original date of 2007 with new years added on the back. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I think if you have been here even on an E2 for a few years with steady employment, you shoudl be able to qualify for some things like a smart phone with no hassle and a lower limit credit card. I can agree that mortgages and larger loans should be reserved for F5's or maybe F2's with a joint Korean name. Giving a newly arrived E2 lots of credit is sheer stupidity. But when you have things to prove you've been here for a while, simple lower level credit shouldn't be an impossibility. |
The issue is that the E2 is at its core a short term one year sponsored employment visa for foreign workers. So working 4 years on 4 E2s is not like accumulating time as a resident when it comes to credit history or services. I can be a hassle to get certain things thats for sure. |
It doesn't matter. It shows we are going to stay here. If one job leaves, I'll just simply get another job and another E2. It means I will be here to keep making the payments and for them to collect from me for. It shows a pattern. Now if Korea stopped hiring English teachers and there was not much work, then I could see them being stringent. But otherwise, it shouldn't be a problem. My E2 has an original date of 2007 with new years added on the back. |
It shows a pattern...but it does not show that this pattern will continue. As far as they are concerned you COULD leave at anytime and then they are in trouble with their superiors. |
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r122925
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
It shows a pattern...but it does not show that this pattern will continue. |
Isn't that what all credit checks do? Show a apattern that may or may not continue? People on F visas and even Korean people can leave the country, lose their jobs, drop dead, etc. I suppose you could argue the rate of default is higher for E-2s, but I don't know if any of us actually have access to that data. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| r122925 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
It shows a pattern...but it does not show that this pattern will continue. |
Isn't that what all credit checks do? Show a apattern that may or may not continue? People on F visas and even Korean people can leave the country, lose their jobs, drop dead, etc. I suppose you could argue the rate of default is higher for E-2s, but I don't know if any of us actually have access to that data. |
Yes but the likelihood of Korean people and F-visas suddenly up and leaving is lower as compared to someone on a temporary work visa. Plus they tend to have more assets, a permanent address. In other words they are a better risk...even if just on paper. |
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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe it is just me, but I find the people with animation as their avatar really like arguing. Is there a connection? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
| Maybe it is just me, but I find the people with animation as their avatar really like arguing. Is there a connection? |
Maybe they like arguing with people that don't use avatars? 
I see the logic in not allowing a long term contract to ppl on short term visas. |
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