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Rockhard
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
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 Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
But how does living in Korea make you, us, NETs racists? If what you are saying is true then the NETs that come here and become racist are doing so because of their HOME culture, not Korean culture.
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Right, I would agree with that. The brain is unwired and malleable in our youth and becomes progressively less malleable as we age. You will adopt the culture of those that surround you in those critical years of 0-13.
If someone believes they became racists after coming to Korea, it's because they already had a predisposition to racism but never experienced other races, probably because they had always been surrounded by their own race.
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Dude, are you serious? USA? The country that gave us napster, imesh, soulseek, Gnutella, Kazaa, Limewire, and The Pirate Bay has a culture that rejects piracy because they want to support the artist? |
Pretty sure "The Pirate Bay" was founded by Swedes. Nevertheless, the Internet got its start in the US, so one would expect most internet innovations to originate there too.
That doesn't change the fact that Americans are far more likely to pay for content than Koreans. Let me hit you with some data.
In 2010, Americans spent $23 per person on music. Koreans spent $7.46 per person. The Japanese spent $42 per person. If you know anything about Japan, you can easily see why this is the case. Loyalty to artists is a key part of Japanese culture. The relationship between creator and consumer is an intimate one.
Source: http://musicandcopyright.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/per-capita-table.jpg |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Dude, are you serious? USA? The country that gave us napster, imesh, soulseek, Gnutella, Kazaa, Limewire, and The Pirate Bay has a culture that rejects piracy because they want to support the artist?
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Yeah, because The Pirate Bay is absolutely 100% American and totally not Swedish at all.
And of course, those crackers that I know who lived in Korea and subsequently left Korea and hate Koreans were totally affected by their home country and not by living in Korea with regards to them hating Koreans.
'CD sales are high in Korea' - what a joke. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, because The Pirate Bay is absolutely 100% American and totally not Swedish at all |
May be born in Sweden, but its users are primarily English language speakers, most of whom are American.
| Quote: |
| In 2010, Americans spent $23 per person on music. Koreans spent $7.46 per person. The Japanese spent $42 per person. If you know anything about Japan, you can easily see why this is the case. Loyalty to artists is a key part of Japanese culture. The relationship between creator and consumer is an intimate one. |
But the point of the article I posted is that many users in Korea get their digital media from paid for subscription services that have substantially lower costs. It also highlighted that they often DO purchase packaged media because of the extras involved and the rabid fan bases.
I say there are a lot of PC Bang dudes out there pirating music. I also say there are a lot of people just getting their music through subscription services. AND there are a lot of rabid fans who buy physical albums because they are obsessed and need every bit for their collection. I think that's sufficient to say that "Koreans don't care about supporting the artist" is just not born out by the facts, especially given the rabid fan bases for many of the KPop groups that have to have every little bit of merchandise of MBlaq or whoever the heck is this weeks flavor of the month.
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| And of course, those crackers that I know who lived in Korea and subsequently left Korea and hate Koreans were totally affected by their home country and not by living in Korea with regards to them hating Koreans. |
Well given that many people are able to live in Korea as foreigners without becoming racists, doesn't it stand to reason that if someone does become racist while living in Korea, it might be because of their personality and individual choices NOT because of "Korea"? Maybe they weren't as tolerant as they thought they were. Maybe they always had subtle racism inside of them. Maybe these views are brought about by a worldview they get from back home that says their way of life there is the norm and the standard by which all others are to be judged.
I think this question is as ridiculous as asking a bunch of Koreans "Has living in America/England/Canada/UK made you racist?" Surely we'd regard such an idea as utter garbage. The UK doesn't make Koreans in the UK racist. Koreans who become racist in the UK do so because of their own character and choices, not because of the UK. The UK does not make Koreans in the UK racist. Korea does not make British in Korea racist. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Surroundings, experiences, and interactions can certainly change a person's views and behavior. In that sense, it's obvious that living in any given country can have an affect on how a person thinks and acts.
Random examples: He lived in Latin America; it made him more open-minded. He lived in Korea; it made him more racist.
"It" being the overall set of experiences, not just the country itself.
Obviously, a person has some choice in how they choose to think about something, but certainly experiences and interactions will help shape those choices.
Real example: Before coming to Korea, I had rarely heard anyone denigrate the Chinese or the Japanese like the Koreans often do. Certainly hearing that could have some effect on how I view those groups. It wouldn't be the ultimate determiner, but it could have an effect. Hearing on a regular basis: "Chinese are dirty." "Japanese are liars" "Koreans are smartest." might certainly shape some preconceptions and views. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
"It" being the overall set of experiences, not just the country itself.
Obviously, a person has some choice in how they choose to think about something, but certainly experiences and interactions will help shape those choices.
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Throw me a line if I reach it in time, I'll meet you up there where the path Runs straight and high. |
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Jodami
Joined: 08 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| "Chinese are dirty." "Japanese are liars" "Koreans are smartest." |
I never heard Koreans say they are smart.
The Japanese refer to the Koreans, as having about as much brainpower, as the average blow up doll. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone develops racial biases to varying degrees. Some of it is taught by parents, some of it is taught in the media, some of it is taught by personal experience, etc. Anyone who doesn't think they have racial biases is living in denial. And yes, some of it can be influenced by living in another country. Sometimes it's positive and sometimes it's negative. And it's not always accurate. It's just our perception, rightly or wrongly (generally a mixture).
Steelrails, a few weeks ago I was curious about where you were from after noticing our dialects are so different (your opinion that the word "lady" is misogynist when I think "lady" is a polite term, and so on). That you're from Michigan made sense, since on this dialect quiz in the New York Times, my results showed the state of Bama as redder than a Crimson Tide jersey (most similar dialect) and Michigan as by far the bluest (least similar dialect to mine), almost as dark as a Wolverines jersey. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0
When I was looking up where you're from, I noticed this post:
| Steelrails wrote: |
Treat foreigners like crap in your native country, and when you goto another country you will be treated like crap. Thats called Karma/ The Golden Rule.
Im an adopted Korean, (and a REAL redneck one to boot- grew up on a farm and shot guns, fly the stars and bars) and I treat everyone here as nicely and in their "own" culture as possible. The people here appreciate that. Non-Koreans who act the same way as I do, get the same respect. |
Don't you think your überapologist views of Koreans relative to non-Koreans are influenced by how well you are treated here, and your negative views regarding non-Koreans in general and whites in particular have been influenced by being disrespected by some non-Korean jerks in the States?
You talk about how well-respected you are in Korea, and say it's because of how you treated others in your homeland. But in the same paragraph, you talked about flying the Confederate flag. I'm from a state that actually did secede from the Union, and the Stars and Bars was our national flag from 1861 until 1863, but it's rarely seen anymore and anyone who does fly it is showing blatant disrespect for African-Americans. Do you really think South Koreans treat you with more respect than they do people from Bangladesh because you treated others with respect in your homeland, while people from Bangladesh are total jerks? |
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Rockhard
Joined: 11 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Jodami wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| "Chinese are dirty." "Japanese are liars" "Koreans are smartest." |
I never heard Koreans say they are smart.
The Japanese refer to the Koreans, as having about as much brainpower, as the average blow up doll. |
What! That was the first thing I heard after getting off the plane. Koreans think they are geniuses because of their big heads and good math scores. They even falsely believe they invented everything. Feelings of being the superior race and sympathies to master race ideology are strong here. Now I can see how as a white person you wouldn't hear this a lot since in their hierarchy we are above them. But whoa to anyone who isn't white skinned. Still, I will concede this sort of thing has faded over the past ten years as Korea have learned more about the outside world. Koreans also know they need to change in order to assimilate the hundreds of thousands of half-breed children in the countryside. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
and your negative views regarding non-Koreans in general and whites in particular have been influenced by being disrespected by some non-Korean jerks in the States?
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Why do I have negative views regarding non-Koreans? First, I have seldom been disrespected back home. Stuff has happened, but its isolated incidents and odd idiots. My point on these forums is that a lot of what people complain and bash here is often based on suspect reasoning and the conclusions are overbroad. I am an apologist for every group, especially in their home country. If I lived in Peru or Saudi Arabia, I would be an apologist for those countries. I find people who come in with basher rants are usually being simpleminded and irrational. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
OK I see, a country made you racist. Got it. Great excuse.  |
Patrick, I think you missed the scientific conclusion that we are all racist. It just takes going to another country to realize this. |
Everyone has prejudicial views on some things. That does not mean everyone is racist. It also does not mean a country can somehow "make you become racist"... |
That was my point exactly. It's already in there. I was just saying it awakens the sleeping giant. |
I think that this is a cop out (sorry). If what you mean is that Korea (or another country) can somehow "wake up" racist tendencies that were dormant then I could not disagree more. Racism is an active choice. Korea (for the purpose of this discussion) will not make anyone racist, a person is racist or becomes that way through their own choices unless they are raised in a household where racism is rampant and on full display. Even then, there is a choice in there somewhere. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| OK I see, a country made you racist. Got it. Great excuse. |
Patrick, I think you missed the scientific conclusion that we are all racist. It just takes going to another country to realize this. |
Everyone has prejudicial views on some things. That does not mean everyone is racist. It also does not mean a country can somehow "make you become racist"... |
That was my point exactly. It's already in there. I was just saying it awakens the sleeping giant. |
I think that this is a cop out (sorry). If what you mean is that Korea (or another country) can somehow "wake up" racist tendencies that were dormant then I could not disagree more. Racism is an active choice. Korea (for the purpose of this discussion) will not make anyone racist, a person is racist or becomes that way through their own choices unless they are raised in a household where racism is rampant and on full display. Even then, there is a choice in there somewhere. |
Well, I agree it is learned, but often things that have been learned are hard to get rid of. It is a choice, as you say. And going to another country can either make it worse or completely change the individual's thoughts on the matter. With some people it takes the jaws of life to take what they learned out of them because it's so deeply ingrained. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| metalhead wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Everyone has prejudicial views on some things. That does not mean everyone is racist. It also does not mean a country can somehow "make you become racist"... |
A country CAN change a person's opinion about other races, unless you have solid rock-hard evidence proving otherwise? Which you do not, because you are wrong. |
Sorry but that is complete BS. A country does not change a person's views on other races...the person chooses to see things a certain way because they prefer to or because they are ignorant.
I lived in France as a teenager (couple of years) and I was exposed to pretty bad racist attitudes at school towards Arabs, Africans, immigrants of all sorts. I sure did not "become" racist towards those groups because of "France". Saying a country changes your views on other races and then makes you racist is pure crap.
What CAN and DOES happen is that living in different societies can lead you to see people differently than you perceived them before living in their society. For example, before we moved to France, my perception of that country was that of a rich culture in art and of an open people.Part of that perception was shattered when I lived there as I saw how many people there treated immigrants and how racism was somehow engrained in the national fabric and crossed generations. Korea was different because I had been exposed to certain aspects of racial perceptions in asia before going over. Again, none of this made me become racist.
I think a distinction needs to be made between racism and "how someone perceives other races or ethnic groups". Living somewhere can change how you see the people from that place as you learn about them. This change is typically negative and positive at the same time. However, living in that same country does not make you become racist towards the people there or towards other races that this people hate or dislike. That kind of thinking is passive and implies a person has not choice in the manner. For example, some Koreans view some other asians as "lower". That makes THEM racist and does not in any way, shape or form lead to you becoming racist. You choose to become racist in that case and that would then be based on your own prejudicial views to start with...what do you bring with you when you live abroad and anywhere else? Yourself and the attitudes that come with it...
As for "rock hard evidence", I do not see anyone here providing any, including you, so that call was a bit of an empty statement on your part.
Last edited by PatrickGHBusan on Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:17 am; edited 2 times in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| OK I see, a country made you racist. Got it. Great excuse. |
Patrick, I think you missed the scientific conclusion that we are all racist. It just takes going to another country to realize this. |
Everyone has prejudicial views on some things. That does not mean everyone is racist. It also does not mean a country can somehow "make you become racist"... |
That was my point exactly. It's already in there. I was just saying it awakens the sleeping giant. |
I think that this is a cop out (sorry). If what you mean is that Korea (or another country) can somehow "wake up" racist tendencies that were dormant then I could not disagree more. Racism is an active choice. Korea (for the purpose of this discussion) will not make anyone racist, a person is racist or becomes that way through their own choices unless they are raised in a household where racism is rampant and on full display. Even then, there is a choice in there somewhere. |
Well, I agree it is learned, but often things that have been learned are hard to get rid of. It is a choice, as you say. And going to another country can either make it worse or completely change the individual's thoughts on the matter. With some people it takes the jaws of life to take what they learned out of them because it's so deeply ingrained. |
Parental heritage is the one thing that is hardest to overcome if it led to passing on prejudicial views. That I agree with completely. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| OK I see, a country made you racist. Got it. Great excuse. |
Patrick, I think you missed the scientific conclusion that we are all racist. It just takes going to another country to realize this. |
Everyone has prejudicial views on some things. That does not mean everyone is racist. It also does not mean a country can somehow "make you become racist"... |
That was my point exactly. It's already in there. I was just saying it awakens the sleeping giant. |
I think that this is a cop out (sorry). If what you mean is that Korea (or another country) can somehow "wake up" racist tendencies that were dormant then I could not disagree more. Racism is an active choice. Korea (for the purpose of this discussion) will not make anyone racist, a person is racist or becomes that way through their own choices unless they are raised in a household where racism is rampant and on full display. Even then, there is a choice in there somewhere. |
Well, I agree it is learned, but often things that have been learned are hard to get rid of. It is a choice, as you say. And going to another country can either make it worse or completely change the individual's thoughts on the matter. With some people it takes the jaws of life to take what they learned out of them because it's so deeply ingrained. |
Parental heritage is the one thing that is hardest to overcome if it led to passing on prejudicial views. That I agree with completely. |
Yes, and that's where a lot of racism comes from, at least in my part of the world. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| metalhead wrote: |
| A country CAN change a person's opinion about other races, unless you have solid rock-hard evidence proving otherwise? Which you do not, because you are wrong. |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
It also does not mean a country can somehow "make you become racist"... |
Agreed, a country cannot "make you" think anything unless you have no control over your own mind.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Parental heritage is the one thing that is hardest to overcome if it led to passing on prejudicial views. |
I think the pressure to align with society has become at least as strong if not stronger than parental.
Hence most westerners claim not to be racist in order to gain social acceptance. |
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