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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| byrddogs wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Yes, SOME Korean fans have that attitude. I'm not talking to them right now am I? I'm addressing the more slickly packaged, but still the same sentiment, of the "they're just academy athletes who only win because they are state sponsored and they have no soul and specialize in rinky dinky sports. Completely different from our athletes. Where a college scholarship to a public uni with state of the art facilities and medical is NOT state sponsorship. Where shelling out 40k a year at private acadamies is more noble thsn public athletics schools and where our victories in equestrian or rowing. that are 75% of our medal count represent 'athletic diversity' rather than specialization. |
I was following along in the red part. You lost me in the blue. What were you trying to say? Who is "our"? |
Well as an American I was talking about 'our' experience with this phenomenon. For some reason American athletes aren't viewed as 'state sponsored' despite getting access and or scholarships to universities with state of the art facilities, paid for with corporate donations and tax dollars, get access to research level medical facilities through those universities. Before they go there many of them in sports like swimming, skiing, equestrian, rowing, etc. train since they are kids at expensive private academies.
All this would be fine, but Americans play up this angle of the innocent kid from the small town who just had oodles of talent and persevered all by himself. And when they lose to someone from Eastern Europe or Asia its always how "they only won because they go to state sponsored sports academies" or specialize in obscure sports. Of course getting a bunch of medals in equestrian isn't "obscure sports" its "athletic diversity".
It's the condescending attitude that Americans feel "entitled" to those medals and when they don't win they run out the same excuses, never mind that their athletes have access to the best facilities in the world and a state-sponsored system as well. They can't just say, "You know what, the Chinese or the East Germans were better this year". About the only sports they DON'T do that in are basketball and hockey where thankfully we just berate our players or even on occasion cheer for another country.
It's not the same as "Korea #1" but you notice it. Look at the Little League World Series where its always presented as "Muncie, IN vs. Japan" to somehow portray it as our small town kids vs. Japan's best, even though in fact its another Japanese or Taiwanese town club. It's subtler, but it's still the same dance.
| Quote: |
| you mean where you have people with different skin color on your team? where you value athletes because of who they are? and not because of their 'pure blood' ?? |
Korean fans do that too in pro sports, both domestic and overseas. They have no problem cheering for non-Koreans in the NBA, MLB, tennis, golf, and EPL. They cheer just as loudly for Youman or Jimenez or Nippert as they do for the Koreans. But yes they do cheer for the Korean national team at the Olympics, which happens to be made up almost exclusively of Koreans, reflecting its population.
They're not cheering the blood (most of them), they're cheering the flag. If some foreigner was nationalized ala Alex for Japan they'd cheer for him as well.
Of course if suddenly Korea were to have a bunch of foreigners competing for it some people would dismiss it as bringing in ringers or throwing out "See it takes a foreigner to show them how to win". Either way Korea is screwed with them, so it doesn't matter. And if Korea didn't cheer at all people would criticize them for lacking spirit and pride. No matter what direction Korea goes, they'll find an angle to attack it. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| byrddogs wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Yes, SOME Korean fans have that attitude. I'm not talking to them right now am I? I'm addressing the more slickly packaged, but still the same sentiment, of the "they're just academy athletes who only win because they are state sponsored and they have no soul and specialize in rinky dinky sports. Completely different from our athletes. Where a college scholarship to a public uni with state of the art facilities and medical is NOT state sponsorship. Where shelling out 40k a year at private acadamies is more noble thsn public athletics schools and where our victories in equestrian or rowing. that are 75% of our medal count represent 'athletic diversity' rather than specialization. |
I was following along in the red part. You lost me in the blue. What were you trying to say? Who is "our"? |
Well as an American I was talking about 'our' experience with this phenomenon. For some reason American athletes aren't viewed as 'state sponsored' despite getting access and or scholarships to universities with state of the art facilities, paid for with corporate donations and tax dollars, get access to research level medical facilities through those universities. Before they go there many of them in sports like swimming, skiing, equestrian, rowing, etc. train since they are kids at expensive private academies.
All this would be fine, but Americans play up this angle of the innocent kid from the small town who just had oodles of talent and persevered all by himself. And when they lose to someone from Eastern Europe or Asia its always how "they only won because they go to state sponsored sports academies" or specialize in obscure sports. Of course getting a bunch of medals in equestrian isn't "obscure sports" its "athletic diversity".
It's the condescending attitude that Americans feel "entitled" to those medals and when they don't win they run out the same excuses, never mind that their athletes have access to the best facilities in the world and a state-sponsored system as well. They can't just say, "You know what, the Chinese or the East Germans were better this year". About the only sports they DON'T do that in are basketball and hockey where thankfully we just berate our players or even on occasion cheer for another country.
It's not the same as "Korea #1" but you notice it. Look at the Little League World Series where its always presented as "Muncie, IN vs. Japan" to somehow portray it as our small town kids vs. Japan's best, even though in fact its another Japanese or Taiwanese town club. It's subtler, but it's still the same dance.
| Quote: |
| you mean where you have people with different skin color on your team? where you value athletes because of who they are? and not because of their 'pure blood' ?? |
Korean fans do that too in pro sports, both domestic and overseas. They have no problem cheering for non-Koreans in the NBA, MLB, tennis, golf, and EPL. They cheer just as loudly for Youman or Jimenez or Nippert as they do for the Koreans. But yes they do cheer for the Korean national team at the Olympics, which happens to be made up almost exclusively of Koreans, reflecting its population.
They're not cheering the blood (most of them), they're cheering the flag. If some foreigner was nationalized ala Alex for Japan they'd cheer for him as well.
Of course if suddenly Korea were to have a bunch of foreigners competing for it some people would dismiss it as bringing in ringers or throwing out "See it takes a foreigner to show them how to win". Either way Korea is screwed with them, so it doesn't matter. And if Korea didn't cheer at all people would criticize them for lacking spirit and pride. No matter what direction Korea goes, they'll find an angle to attack it. |
Stick to the facts, jack. Tax dollars aren't paying for university sports facilities. ESPN, NBC, etc., fat cat alumni, fans and student ticket sales and tuition fees are paying for them.
About the Koreans cheering for other competitors, the Korean spectators at the Olympics weren't showing much sportsmanship. And most of the Koreans and Korean-Americans at the Dodgers games wouldn't be there if not for Ryu.
The East Germans were cheating on a grand scale so are a terrible example. BTW, there was a Cold War going on and they were on our enemies' side, so pretty natural to root against them.
Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on so why not just bow out of this thread and take a seat, little G? |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course if suddenly Korea were to have a bunch of foreigners competing for it some people would dismiss it as bringing in ringers or throwing out |
Do you get the difference between competing FOR Korea and competing as a Korean? Korean society continually rejects people like Hines Ward. They want 'pure bloods' because more or less it's a country based on a race. Many Koreans will definitely cheer for NBA teams and have their favourite players. There are also many Koreans who are open minded about racial matters. That however does not address the root problem. When you treat bi-racial people like crap they tend to leave the country. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It's the condescending attitude that Americans feel "entitled" to those medals and when they don't win they run out the same excuses, never mind that their athletes have access to the best facilities in the world and a state-sponsored system as well. They can't just say, "You know what, the Chinese or the East Germans were better this year |
SR is right on this one. Americans spend a sh&! ton of money on their athletes and somehow think it's fair...what a bunch of BS. |
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