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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| The fact that you are a westerner does not mean that you have to agree with or stick up for any ol' westerner that you come across, does it? Especially if it is a close minded statement. |
If you were a westerner you might want to defended other westerners from ethnic slander - but since you are not, you dont, as you state above.
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| Minorities are the western culture now. Unless you're from some rural farm town, you'd understand. |
This kind of perspective is alien to me and it shows how far a kyopo's thinking paterns (yours) differs from a westerners (mine). You might think Korean immigrants or first generation Koreans and others are representative examples of western civilization, but I do not. I will tell you something - a black man doesnt need a white man to tell him what it means to be black, and I dont need a kyopo to tell me what it means to be a westerner.
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No one here dislikes Kyopo just because they are kyopo - the comments by kiwiboy and others are the result of kyopo behavior.
- Uh.. from what he said earlier, and your current statement.. you kind of infer that you don't like kyopo because they are kyopo. If you judge someone based on experiences with other people of a particular culture (ethnicity), then you are prejudging. |
Time to re-read my statement again to gain full understanding. To put it more simply, I said that if people dont like kyopo then it is the result of kyopo behavior. Is that so hard to understand? For example, after reading your post I have come to dislike you (in an impersonal sense), and I know that many kyopo are on the same wavelength as you.
I reserve the right to judge individuals that enter my personal space by any standard I like. I wont reject all kyopo out of hand but if I meet one they will have to show their value before they can gain my trust. When a westerner and a kyopo in Korea fight, the kyopo's last words are always 'Get Out Of My Country!' |
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cheem
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| I have met plenty of Kyopo and most know nothing about western culture and have no interest in knowing. |
"I have met plenty of Kyopo" -- Interesting. This is almost word for word the phrase that kiwiboy used at the top of the page, and I'm calling bollocks on it as well. Even if you were to conjure up 100 imaginary gyopo friends to support your argument, I could think of at least as many real gyopos I've known throughout the years, most of whom I'm sure don't give a flying F who Koreans or white people decide to date.
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| As foe Cheem and others, if you were really 'westerners' then you would also be offended at the OP's post, but you are not because you are kyopo and you know the message wasnt targeted at you. |
I, unlike yourself, can recognize a troll when I see one, and have chosen not to dignify his OP with a comment or response. You, on the other hand, have allowed your prejudices to color your interpretation of our silence. Shame on YOU, not us. |
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cheem
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| I stand by the statement. Kyopos, who are by definition first generation americans, are not completely western by culture. That is not naive. |
Could you please back this statement up? Simply stating something doesn't make it true, nor "not naive".
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| Fist of all, I was rude, and I meant to be. I said "Go away angry kyopo". The OP was extremely rude himself, deliberately so, and I have not problem with what I wrote. |
This is fine as long as 1. you're comfortable stooping to the OP's level, and 2. you don't mind sounding like a bigot.
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| If I had said "You sound kyopo, am I right?" I don't think that is rude. |
"You sound black, am I right?" That's rude. And it also sounds like it came from the mouth of a meathead.
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| Finally, you say I should leave the guy's race alone, when in fact his post specifically addressed racial issues and singled out westerners for specific criticism. I can't see how you justify your position here. |
Again, I hope you enjoy the company you keep.
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
I also acertained from his idea that he was kyopo.
I did not dismiss his idea because he was kyopo. |
Okay, you've made your point here, but given that you've also made your feelings about gyopos abundantly clear, don't you think it's a bit trivial and late? |
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cheem
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| I will tell you something - a black man doesnt need a white man to tell him what it means to be black, and I dont need a kyopo to tell me what it means to be a westerner. |
Btw, kiwiboy are you proud of the way shakuhachi is backing you up here? |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Btw, kiwiboy are you proud of the way shakuhachi is backing you up here? |
�̺� cheem!������ ������ ���� ���� �ϴ� ���� ������ ���۰ž�? ������ �����ϴµ� �������� �������� ���ڴٰ� ��� �ϳ�?
���� ���� �̾߱��. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Zyzypher wrote: |
What the *beep*? Seriously dude...naive. As naive as assuming that an Asian/Caucasian relationship has clear blue skies in the U.S. Yes, the U.S. is not the world. No, these sorts of relationships aren't readily given the green light there, either. |
Your reply seems to have nothing to do with my post, very confusing. You said my statement was naive, then went into a completely unrelated example. I stand by the statement. Kyopos, who are by definition first generation americans, are not completely western by culture. That is not naive. |
I didn't think that I would have to explain how A relates to C via B; it's very related. But someone would undoubtedly brush it off as "anecdotal evidence" and tell me to shove off.
I'll give you a few hints.
#1-When lil' Zyz was but a wee lad, his mommy once said to him, "Son, if you ever bring a black girl home with you, I'll disown you."
#2-Every single person in my family uses the n word when referencing black people. It's pretty fun sitting down for Christmas dinner and having everyone go "n***** this, n***** that, but this n***** is one of the good ones, so we like him."
#3-This sort of mentality that is prevalent throughout small city U.S. isn't limited to just blacks. There's a lot of racism in the U.S. that lies just under the surface...not the out-and-out stuff you'd see here in Korea (at least you know who likes and hates you), but stuff that's real on the sly. While interracial dating is starting to become more and more accepted, it's hardly a land of the free if two people from different cultures want to hitch it up.
Does it need further explaining? I'm saying that some kyopo spaz who shits in your pants because you're walking around with ms. kiwiboy isn't the only guy in the universe with a chip on his shoulder about interracial dating.
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| Fist of all, I was rude, and I meant to be. I said "Go away angry kyopo". The OP was extremely rude himself, deliberately so, and I have not problem with what I wrote. |
Fair enough.
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| I dissagree, however, that mentioning someones race is rude by definition. If I had said "You sound kyopo, am I right?" I don't think that is rude. Nor do I think race is irrelevant in a discussion board for expats in a foreign country. I don't think anyone should be ashamed of thier race, therefore I don't think mentioning someone's race is pejorative unless there is something specific about the way it is mentioned that makes it perjorative. |
Is chronicpride black? I've always been a bit curious of that. Same with komtengi. I mean...they talk about hiphop and stuff. But sometimes they make such "white dude" topics...hmm...I wonder if they'd appreciate me assuming that they're black guys. Maybe I should start calling people Indians or some shit; I mean, there's enough hippies on the board, and a hell of a lot of alcoholics.
It's not what you say, it's what you imply when you say it.
Relevancy of race? I doubt I can change your opinion on that issue...but I'll just say that I usually don't go out of my way to figure out someone's race, whether it be face to face, on a message board, travelling, whatever.
It has very little effect on how I regard someone.
Finally, I find it frightening that you actually think every Asian that goes to North America sticks adherently to their family's culture. It's nearly impossible if the students go through school and get socially involved. I thought the dominant frame of mind with Asian Americans was a conflict of culture as they get older, rather than ignorance of one side.
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| Finally, you say I should leave the guy's race alone, when in fact his post specifically addressed racial issues and singled out westerners for specific criticism. I can't see how you justify your position here. |
I justify my position because I've no need for debate on race; if he wants to bash white dudes with some idiotic post that barely even makes sense, whatever. I don't feel personally offended by what he said and I can go right back to life without so much as thinking twice about it. I wouldn't have said anything to you if I didn't know you as well; it wouldn't have mattered to me. But we've had a few drinks together and I generally respect what you're saying, and I find this pretty out-of-character with the guy at the bar.
Don't take it personally; I'm not singling you out. There's a big tendency on this board to sniff out potential Koreans and gyopos and point this fact out at an opportune time to denounce their points without actually confronting the issue. "Oh, you're kyopo, you just don't get it." Or, "now I know why your ideas are crazy; you're kyopo!"
I ask again: Who gives a shit? Attack the ideas, not the person. karl is an idiot. Whether he's a white idiot, a black idiot, a brown idiot, a yellow idiot, a purple idiot, or a green idiot, does it really change the fact that he's an idiot either way? |
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FUBAR
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: The Y.C.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:12 am Post subject: Re: missing the point |
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| karl wrote: |
If anyone is offended,I'm sorry the truth hurts...... Do not pretend you love Korea because of the babes.
Yes,I have a white girlfriend back home and she is,and will remain, my princess.I came here to work,not to play around!
Now everybody,get out of bed and back to teaching! "I love Korea!" Yeaaah right! |
You will love Korea b/c of the babes soon enough.
While you are here working your ass off, some other guy will be making his way towards scoring your white girl. Deny it all you want. Try and fool yourself. Say that you can trust your girl. Tell me how she would never do that. Tell me that I don't know her. Say that I am trolling. Maybe to some extent I am. But, the fact remains; you are in Korea many hours away, while some other man is just a phone call away.
Sooner or later, everyone gets a case of the Asian Fever.
Oh it's true.... It's damn true. |
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pauly
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Shakuhachi
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| Cheem, do you know what you are talking about? Look at the Korean tendency to congregate in 'Korea towns', attend Korean churches, associate with Koreans when possible, spread awful rumours when someone from the 'Korean community' spots a Korean girl they know with a white guy. Do you think that is the behavior of people that have adjusted well into the country they live in? I have met plenty of Kyopo and most know nothing about western culture and have no interest in knowing. No one here dislikes Kyopo just because they are kyopo - the comments by kiwiboy and others are the result of kyopo behavior. |
Shakuhachi, do YOU know what you're talking about? Are you talking about kyopos who grew up in North America or newly immigrated Koreans? The kyopos that I grew up with are very much integrated into the North American culture with a blending of their Korean culture. That's what makes us Canadians. Being in Canada, we love hockey as much as anyone else. We drink Canadian beer and make fun of American beer as much as anyone else. We date white, yellow, black women/men, much to the chagrin of our parents, as much as anyone else (we have no problems with other cultures dating "our women" but you should see the looks I get from caucasians when I'm dating a caucasian woman).
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pauly wrote:
I may be going to Korea this January, but I have no interest in dating Korean women
Cheem:
That will change, trust me. |
I really don't think so, Cheem. I really have no desire to date Korean women. 
We are pissed when the government screws around this great country as much as anyone else. We make fun of K-Pop, and laugh at Korean students that came to Canada to study english but end up hanging out exclusively with other Korean students and only speak korean to each other and think they are so superior to us (major run-on sentence, I know). These alone may not make me Canadian, but I AM Canadian just as much as those whose families have been here for the past 100 years. It's funny how I, a kyopo, will sing the national anthem at a hockey game when a lot of people don't. |
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cheem
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| pauly wrote: |
| Are you talking about kyopos who grew up in North America or newly immigrated Koreans? |
I think he's got us mixed up with the latter. In his defense, we do all look the same.
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| I really don't think so, Cheem. I really have no desire to date Korean women. |
I suspect this would be your first time to Korea. Albertan women are hot as hell, but a 20 minute walk through Gangnam should have you straightened out. |
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pauly
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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pauly wrote:
I may be going to Korea this January, but I have no interest in dating Korean women
Cheem:
That will change, trust me. |
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pauly wrote:
I really don't think so, Cheem. I really have no desire to date Korean women. |
Hey, maybe I'm not a Westerner. I don't have yellow fever like the rest of you.  |
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dnamkung
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Location: Victoria British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Kiwiboy---
Finally, you say I should leave the guy's race alone, when in fact his post specifically addressed racial issues and singled out westerners for specific criticism. I can't see how you justify your position here. [/quote]
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Basically what the person was trying to say is that just because Karl had to judge by race, that you didn't have to stoop to that as well.
Shakuhachi--
what IS your definition of western culture?
From what you are giving me i'm confused.
My friends are first generation scottish dudes. Their parents speak with scottish accents, yet they do not. Does that make them still non-western?? Everyone knows that the "west" is just a bunch of immigrants anyways. You neglect the 1st or 2nd generation of any particular ethnicity in the west, you neglect the west.
You said a black man doesn't need a white man to tell him what it means to be black.
An African-American (a lot of them are first and second generation as well) man also doesn't also need a white man to tell him he his not western.
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if people dont like kyopo then it is the result of kyopo behavior.
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I totally understood what you mean. try inserting white people in that phrase instead of kyopo. If people don't like white people, then it is the result of white people behavior. That sounds like a radical prejudgment doesn't it? This is due to the fact that you are generalizing culture and not assessing individuals.
Quote-- I reserve the right to judge individuals that enter my personal space by any standard I like. I wont reject all kyopo out of hand but if I meet one they will have to show their value before they can gain my trust.
Fair enough. I can also understand that. A lot of my friends are not open to anybody, they make people earn their trust beforehand.. rather than accepting people until they do something to make them lost trust in them.
If you do this with everyone equally, I respect that. If you single out gyopos, then you are..more on the biased side.
After reading my post you have come to dislike me on an impersonal sense... in person, i think i'd surprise you. Gyopos aren't so bad.
-Dave
"if you don't know, now you know..n***a"-- B.I.G |
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