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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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 Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: |
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"For the first time in its history, Ireland experienced a significant inflow of migrants - both workers and asylum seekers - from outside the European Union (EU).With regard to labor immigration, Ireland has maintained policies that are among the most liberal in Europe. Ireland granted citizens of the 10 new EU member states free access to the Irish labor market immediately upon EU enlargement on May 1, 2004."
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Profiles/display.cfm?id=260
However it appears ireland has immediately decided they don't like anyone who's not Irish.
Mass Deportation of Immigrants Blockaded in Dublin. Arrests Ongoing.
Ireland has been pursuing a policy of expedited deportations of immigrant families for the last couple of years. Amid a rising tide of racism fueled by the rhetoric of prominent politicians (who refer to Turkish workers as "kebabs") there are deep concerns that the human rights of vulnerable asylum seekers are being ignored.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/72514
To be honest, ireland is a homogneous somewhat xenophobic country a bit like korea. Its hardly a surprise they can't get used to new folks.
in my opinion, ireland should be doing their bit to take in legitimate assylum seekers like any other EU country. Looks like they've been sending people back to their deaths in the 3rd world. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| To be honest, ireland is a homogneous somewhat xenophobic country a bit like korea. Its hardly a surprise they can't get used to new folks. |
There might be some truth in that.
Their recent economic success, like Korea, is giving the Irish Republic its first taste of inward immigration. As opposed to before the 1990's when nobody in their right mind would move to Ireland for economic reasons!
It was indeed a homogenous society until recently so there will be a period of friction. Call it growing pains..... |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| ireland should be doing their bit to take in legitimate assylum seekers like any other EU country. |
Most such 'asylum seekers' are in fact economic migrants, which Ireland has no obligation to. Ireland's immigration and asylum system should be based on whether it benefits Ireland. Allowing in tens of thousands of people from the third world is unlikely to be in Ireland's best interest.
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| Looks like they've been sending people back to their deaths in the 3rd world. |
That is merely speculation on your part. By the way, asylum seekers are supposed to declare asylum in the first safe country they arrive in. How many countries do they have to pass through before coming to Ireland? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| ireland should be doing their bit to take in legitimate assylum seekers like any other EU country. |
Most such 'asylum seekers' are in fact economic migrants, which Ireland has no obligation to. Ireland's immigration and asylum system should be based on whether it benefits Ireland. Allowing in tens of thousands of people from the third world is unlikely to be in Ireland's best interest.
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| Looks like they've been sending people back to their deaths in the 3rd world. |
That is merely speculation on your part. By the way, asylum seekers are supposed to declare asylum in the first safe country they arrive in. How many countries do they have to pass through before coming to Ireland? |
So bigverne... are koreans justified in treating you as an outsider who threatens their beloved bloodline? What have you learned from your sojourn in inward-looking Korea? anything? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| are koreans justified in treating you as an outsider who threatens their beloved bloodline? What have you learned from your sojourn in inward-looking Korea? anything? |
What has that got to do with Irish immigration policy?
Korea, like every other country, has the right to decide who can and cannot enter its country, and to develop an immigration policy that works for the benefit of Korea. Korea seems to have an immigration policy that generally reflects the opinions of the population, whether you agree with those opinions or not. In countries like the UK and Ireland, immigration policy is in direct opposition to public opinion on the issue. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| What has that got to do with Irish immigration policy? |
Korea and ireland are both among the most homogenous nations on earth. A foreign face is a rare sight in both, and in my opinion both have very nationalistic and significantly racial attitudes. Of course I'm not advocating a largescale invasion of either country by immigrants, but that each value/respect cultures other than just their own. Accepting their responsibilities to look after assylum seekers/refugees is part of this. breaking down racism and stereotypical prejudices is part of this.
Isn't it amazing how Ireland and korea have both exported millions of their own populace to the west over the years, yet both don't want any foreigners in their own countries?
So none of your experiences in korea have led you to believe that racism and xenophobia is a bad thing? |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
. Ireland granted citizens of the 10 new EU member states free access to the Irish labor market immediately upon EU enlargement on May 1, 2004."
However it appears ireland has immediately decided they don't like anyone who's not Irish.
Ireland has been pursuing a policy of expedited deportations of immigrant families for the last couple of years. Amid a rising tide of racism fueled by the rhetoric of prominent politicians (who refer to Turkish workers as "kebabs") there are deep concerns that the human rights of vulnerable asylum seekers are being ignored.
To be honest, ireland is a homogneous somewhat xenophobic country a bit like korea. Its hardly a surprise they can't get used to new folks.
in my opinion, ireland should be doing their bit to take in legitimate assylum seekers like any other EU country. Looks like they've been sending people back to their deaths in the 3rd world. |
Your logic (to use the word loosely) is a little bit strange. You seem to be arguing that the Irish want to keep Ireland only for themselves and to back this up you quote two sources. One showing Ireland to be one of the first countries to allow citizens of the ten new EU member states access to it's labour market and another showing that Ireland actively deports illegal (non EU) immigrants. Do you somehow think the two policies are contradictory or are you arguing that the citizens of the ten new EU member states are really long lost Irishmen returning (like the scotti apparently did to Ulster  ). |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Korea and ireland are both among the most homogenous nations on earth |
For starters, Ireland is nowhere near as homogeneous as Korea and a foreign face in Ireland is not a 'rare sight' except maybe in the countryside. Also, for many years, people from the UK have been totally free to live and work in Ireland.
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| Accepting their responsibilities to look after assylum seekers/refugees is part of this. breaking down racism and stereotypical prejudices is part of this. |
As I have already stated, most asylum seekers are economic migrants, who have passed through numerous safe countries and to whom Ireland has no obligation. Yes, racism and stereotypical prejudices should be challenged and foreigners who immigrate legally should be treated with respect and tolerance. However, that does not mean that a country should have to accept large numbers of foreigners if it is not in the interests of the nation.
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| Isn't it amazing how Ireland and korea have both exported millions of their own populace to the west over the years, yet both don't want any foreigners in their own countries? |
Not really. By the way, Ireland is part of the 'West'. Ireland and Korea were both once very poor countries and naturally people moved out. It is not particularly surprising that people from relatively homogeneous countries, with little experience of immigration, are not to keen on large numbers of foreigners moving to their country.
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| So none of your experiences in korea have led you to believe that racism and xenophobia is a bad thing? |
Nice strawman. Racism and xenophobia are a bad thing and I didn't need to live in Korea to realise that. However, I do not think either Ireland, or Korea would benefit from large scale immigration, particularly if it was from vastly different cultures. |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
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| What has that got to do with Irish immigration policy? |
Korea and ireland are both among the most homogenous nations on earth. A foreign face is a rare sight in both, and in my opinion both have very nationalistic and significantly racial attitudes. |
Junior,
I am afraid you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
10% of the people in Ireland today are Irish Non-Nationals. There is nowhere in the entire country that you can go without hearing foreign languages.
Ireland has had the highest inbound immigration numbers per capita in the EU for the past few years.
http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/stats.pdf
Asylum Seekers and Legal Immigrants are treated very differently from a legal point of view.
It would be great to be able to offer a new home for all the people unfortunate enough to be caught up in conflict but alas even the USA wouldn't be big enough to hold them all. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Junior wrote
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| Korea and ireland are both among the most homogenous nations on earth. A foreign face is a rare sight in both, and in my opinion both have very nationalistic and significantly racial attitudes |
I think nationalism and racism are characteristics of the human race in general along with 23 paired chromosomes and opposable thumbs. You're kidding yourself if you think they are solely characteristic of the Irish and Koreans. You might want to consider including some international news reports in your diet of daily reading (or alternatively browse through the current events forum here on occasion). You'd be amazed how much you can learn if you just try opening up your mind a little.  |
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crystal
Joined: 04 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
To be honest, ireland is a homogneous somewhat xenophobic country a bit like korea. Its hardly a surprise they can't get used to new folks.
in my opinion, ireland should be doing their bit to take in legitimate assylum seekers like any other EU country. Looks like they've been sending people back to their deaths in the 3rd world. |
Have you lived in Ireland recently?? In the larger towns and cities racism isn't such a big problem and it is really not uncommon to see foreigners there, I spent a year working in a hotel and I had coworkers of many different races, nationalities and creeds. They got along just fine, and were stared at considerably less than foreigners in Korea are.
Admittedly in the small towns, such as where I grew up, there are a lot of racist undertones. Some of the things that my friends and family say at times shock me.
Ireland had a major influx of refugees over a few years. They were treated much better in Ireland than they would have been in numerous other countries. They were given free housing and food in centres as well as a monetary allowance. People who had babies in Ireland were automatically granted residency.
The fact is though that no country, especially one as small as Ireland, can sustain such a high level of inward migration. Ireland just doesn't have the resources to continue to cater towards all the immigrants. Unemployment is rising and welfare payments are huge. We can't let everyone stay. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Grimalkin wrote: |
Junior wrote
| Quote: |
| Korea and ireland are both among the most homogenous nations on earth. A foreign face is a rare sight in both, and in my opinion both have very nationalistic and significantly racial attitudes |
I think nationalism and racism are characteristics of the human race in general along with 23 paired chromosomes and opposable thumbs. You're kidding yourself if you think they are solely characteristic of the Irish and Koreans. |
But not all countries exhibit a uniform level of nationalism and racism. And Korea is on the high side comparatively... |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| Grimalkin wrote: |
Junior wrote
| Quote: |
| Korea and ireland are both among the most homogenous nations on earth. A foreign face is a rare sight in both, and in my opinion both have very nationalistic and significantly racial attitudes |
I think nationalism and racism are characteristics of the human race in general along with 23 paired chromosomes and opposable thumbs. You're kidding yourself if you think they are solely characteristic of the Irish and Koreans. |
But not all countries exhibit a uniform level of nationalism and racism. And Korea is on the high side comparatively... |
.....compared to whom, China, Japan? Are America or Australia less nationalistic or racist? Eastern Europe or Western for that matter? The Middles Eastern states? Various African nations....? By all means show me the comparative figures.... |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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phillipjames wrote
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| As far back as the Tain (1st century) Ulster was at serious odds with the South. |
You're citing Irish mythology as an historical source???
You might as well cite King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table!
Please tell me that this (and your tales of wandering Scotti) are not representative of what Ulster Unionists are basing their claims to ascendancy in Northern Ireland on. If one side are really that deluded (are the other side equally caught up in fiction?) there isn't much hope of a successful joint solution to the problem of Northern Ireland.
The only really hope is when both sides stop using past events (real or imaginary) to fuel their hatred of each other (and stop inculcating it in their children). Only when they put their past behind them can they have any sort of hope for the future. |
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philipjames
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Eamo, it is possible that all of those nationalist leaders' ancestors (so many of them) married Protestants, then their descendants converted back to Catholicism.
Possible? Yes. Likely? No. In fact it is extremely unlikely in the Ulster context. An occasional person here and there, okay. But so many in the Catholic / nationalist leadership with Scottish surnames? All of these people's ancestors intermarried with Prods? |
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