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Caledonian Craig
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Location: Edinburgh
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Caledonian Craig wrote: |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw
a clip from rupert murdoch's finest reporter |
How many flaws could you find in his first minute of ranting?
here are some:
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| "israel has been invading lebanon for all the 24 years of my daughters life" |
-So she was dead from 2000-2006 when israel completed a full withdrawal?
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| "Lebanon is fighting for the rest of their land back" |
Actually, israel does not occupy an inch of Lebanese and. They withdrew behind the universally, internationally, agreed border in 2000 and hoped never to have to return.
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| "israel is holding 1000's of lebanese prisoners" |
Actually the total is 4. 1 of whom is a man who was convicted of murdering a 12yr old Israeli girl. not even a political prisoner.
And one good question from the interviewer: "Given that hesbollah was set up in the 80s with the aims of ensuring no israeli soldiers were on Lebanese soil, isn't it ironic that due to their actions there are now more israeli soldiers in lebanon than ever before?"
What an intolerable twit that man is. He looked like he'd just downed 10 bottles of soju. |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually the total is 4. 1 of whom is a man who was convicted of murdering a 12yr old Israeli girl. not even a political prisoner. |
Junior, you are misinformed, as is most of the world. Israel has a 'special" way with disinformation and because of its state of emergency, anyone can be detained without trial indefinitely (many have been in prison for years without trial).......
Where you are wrong is that "officially" there are only 4 prisoners (after the 2004 exchange). But Israel (and confirmed) continues to hold persons without any mention, formal declaration. They are simply , "missing persons"....this is how they get through the slip stream and massage public opinion. I suggest you get informed about Israel and how it detains and imprisons women and children, tortures and imprisons without any thought of trial.....
About the lebanese prisoners go to....http://www.followupcsld-ip.org.lb/lebdetainees-frames.html
See a list below of names/ real people, fathers, brothers, uncles, sons....mothers,daughters...
I would suggest a very scientific, non biased look at the Israel prison system and its violation of all human rights. Stolen Youth: The Politics of Israel's Detention of Palestinian Children, by Catherine Cook.
She writes very matter of fact about the hundreds and maybe thousands of detained children languishing in Israel prisons. She also writes about how the Israel govt, misinforms its own citizens and goes about doing this and still declaring itself to be "democratic"......a quick excerpt. And a review.... Let's not go without mentioning Israeli distane for U.N. resolutions about said prisons and actions....
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=4970
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| Children are arrested "at checkpoints, on the street, or at their homes by heavily armed Israeli soldiers in the middle of the night. The soldiers take them to detention centres in Israeli settlements or military camps� the children are interrogated. This almost always involves some form of torture or abuse, including sleep and food deprivation, threatening language, beatings with heavy batons, being punched and kicked, as well as being tied in painful and contorted positions for long periods of time�" |
Israel is a future example of the coming American prison state. Please see how fast Israel is building new prisons for the Lebanese....
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3279762,00.html
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The following list includes some of those missing persons:
Yihya Sakff- Mohammed Al-Moallem- Nizar Merhi- Ali Obeid Icha- Mohammed Abbouchi- Fadi Habbal- Hassib Berri- Samir Kharfan- Hussein Mahamoud Zaher- Mohammed Mahmoud Mansour- Hani Dahrouj- Nihmeh Hachem-Haidar Zoeyb- Ibrahim Noureddine- Bilal Samadi- Mohammed Chihab- Fawaz Abdul Karim Bazzi- Ali Mohammed Farhat- Hassan Sami Taha-Fawaz Dakrouni- Mohammed Ali Sawli- Abbasse Kassem Buleid- Sami Kawwache- Daoud Abdul Khalek- Issa Mustafa- Fadi Chehadeh- Abdul Rahman Ahmad- Mohammed Said Jarar-Moussa Hawwache- Khodor Ashmar- Mohammed Fares Radwan- Khaled Chehadeh- Ibrahim Kobeysh- Abdul Rahman Buhari �Ziad Zaatari- Mounir Kassem Awada- Mustafa Rananeh- Walid Kamar- Ahmad Rifai- Ghassan Ghulmini- Mahmoud Wajih�Sheikh Said- Suheil Rammal- Mohammed Youssef Assaad- Amer Mohammed Amer- Khaled Chahine- Ayman Chahine- Nimir Kashmar- Ali Abdul Karim Kashmar- Ibrahim Zeynedine- Ahmad Nasereddine- Hassan Mahmoud Mousawi- Jamal Sibai- Mahdi Nasser- Hussein Chamas- Hassan Samaha- Suleiman Achab- Mohammed Salhab- Taleb Achab- Ahmad Abdul Rassoul- Hassan Hachem Hachem- Fadlallah Zein- Imad Ali Bolhosse- Hassan Youssef Bolhosse- Ali Nassereddine- Samir Khalaf- Ibrahim Khalil- Suheil Salman- Ahmad Chahrour- Mohammed Ali Chahrour-Abdul Rahman Chahrour- Hamza Ali Chahrour- Imad Mawla-Hassan Jawadallah- Hussein Fawwaz- Ahmad Saadeddine Ghafash- Hassan Saadeddine Ghafash- Juma Mahdi Jibahe-Nabil Ali Farhat- Mohammed Haidar- Nabil Kilkasse- Hichame Ismail- Hassan Ballout �Kamel Chehadeh- Nassar Amine Mirzine etc. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hizzbollah is at war with and is out to destroy Israel does Israel have an obligation to release POW of an organization that is dedicated to destroying it? |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ddeubel"]
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| Where you are wrong is that "officially" there are only 4 prisoners (after the 2004 exchange). [b]But Israel (and confirmed) continues to hold persons without any mention, formal declaration. They are simply , "missing persons".... |
Lebanese persons?i don't think so.
Hesbollah is at pains to justify their war to the world, and so they say israel captured 1000's of Lebanese for no reason which provoked their aggression. Not so. If true, your soundbite of propaganda refers to palestinian/Arab prisoners, not Lebanese.
Hesbollah has no legitimate grievance for their war: its simply a case of Syrian/Iranian backed terrorists who hate israel supplanting the Lebanese govt.
That article features one as yet unbuilt prison. Can't be building them that fast, not a days work has been done on it yet. In any case, it would be to house prisoners captured during the current fighting, which is an entirely different mater to the supposed Lebanese prisoners you say Israel has arbitrarily detained prior to the hostilities. |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Who are these supposed Lebanese prisoners??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5211930.stm
Justifying its seizure of the two Israelis, Hezbollah said it mounted the raid in an effort to secure the release of Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails.
Although Israel holds thousands of what it calls security prisoners, most of those are Palestinian (see below). Following a major prisoner swap in early 2004, in which more than 400 prisoners were released to Hezbollah in exchange for a reservist colonel and the bodies of three Israeli soldiers, Israel now admits to holding just three Lebanese.
Chief among those is Samir Qantar, serving several life sentences for murder after attacking a civilian apartment block in Nahariya in 1979. A policeman, another man and his four-year-old daughter were killed. A baby girl was accidentally smothered by her mother as she hid in a cupboard.
Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah has frequently called for Qantar's release, threatening to derail the 2004 deal when he was excluded from the list of prisoners. His name has once again been raised during the current crisis. Israel has refused to discuss releasing Qantar, often linking his status to its search for information about Ron Arad, an Israeli airman missing since being shot down over Lebanon in 1986.
Israel also holds an Israel man of Lebanese descent, Nissim Nasser, arrested in 2002 and convicted of spying for Hezbollah. The third Lebanese prisoner is a fighter called Yehia Skaff, Hezbollah MP Nawar al-Sahili told the BBC. Mr al-Sahili said that Israel also holds a fourth man, a fisherman called Ali Faratan.
Israel is also thought to be holding 25 Lebanese citizens of Palestinian origin, many for conventional criminal offences. Their release is not understood to be at the heart of the dispute with Hezbollah. |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Junior,
What you list/describe is exactly ONLY what Israel wants the world to know. Much like Guantanamo but far ahead of its time. Nobody knows what they do and under their security laws, they have no need to contact anyone of the taken, nor accuse or lend any rights. They can simply hold them as enemies of the state, INDEFINITELY and without anyone knowing better........
This has been a BIG issue with those who follow Israel's relations with Palestine, Lebanon and Syria. Given Israel's own laws and her own detention without trial of thousands of Palestinians and her own kidnapping of legitimate members of the Palestinian govt. HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THE PARTY LINE THEY FEED. I simply don't, having read countless reports of mothers who have never seen their sons or nephews come back ................simply doesn't jive that these mothers are part of some Hizbollah negotiating tactic.
Please read Catherine Cook's book , where she also touches on the issue of Lebanese prisoners of war.......(and how Israel doesn't even lend the slightest credence to considering them POWs despite how the prisoners demand such in Israel.....).
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:20 am Post subject: |
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that is a bbc report. Or it is another pro Bush source like Newsweek  |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
Please read Catherine Cook's book
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I think I'll take the BBC over Catherine Cook.
Once again..i dont deny Israel is holding hundreds of foreign prisoners. They are Palestinians. Not lebanese. Thats what your book refers to.
Why would hesbollah spend 6 years building weapons and agitating for a fight with a peaceful neighbour? one that withdrew completely from lebanon years ago? Why?
Nobody has answered this yet.
Because the simple answer is.. hesbollah are Iranian/syrian inspired terrorists that hate Israel, no matter what they do. Hisbollah has no legitimate grievance. |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Why would hesbollah spend 6 years building weapons and agitating for a fight with a peaceful neighbour? one that withdrew completely from lebanon years ago? Why?
Nobody has answered this yet. |
I have answered it numerous times............(and not saying they are right,nor are Israel). Territorial integrity because of continued occupation of Lebanese territory and incursions. Abductions (whether you wish to belive this or not is inconsequencial. They believe and have reason.). Israeli failure to address reparations for the terror, destruction and annihilation of S. Lebanon -- aggression on their part, fully , completely. Further, they also see Israel operating as judge, jury and executioner in the West Bank, practically controlling what is to be considered a foreign land..... All this combined with Israeli firepower in the thousands of kilo tons (compared with the match sticks launched by them..) is why they are fighting...
Your use of the words..."peaceful neighbour " are disengineous and I call you on it. From the present actions,not even looking at a horrid past, we can label Israel an aggressor and " unpeaceful" neighbour. Forget all the B.S. about wanting to make peace by killing thousands and please forgive us for all the civilians killed in the way...boo hoo... I call it as I sees it.................. shame....
Don't go trying to pass water for piss....
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: |
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I have answered it numerous times............(and not saying they are right,nor are Israel). Territorial integrity because of continued occupation of Lebanese territory and incursions. Abductions (whether you wish to belive this or not is inconsequencial. They believe and have reason.). Israeli failure to address reparations for the terror, destruction and annihilation of S. Lebanon -- aggression on their part, fully , completely. Further, they also see Israel operating as judge, jury and executioner in the West Bank, practically controlling what is to be considered a foreign land..... All this combined with Israeli firepower in the thousands of kilo tons (compared with the match sticks launched by them..) is why they are fighting...
Your use of the words..."peaceful neighbour " are disengineous and I call you on it. From the present actions,not even looking at a horrid past, we can label Israel an aggressor and " unpeaceful" neighbour. Forget all the B.S. about wanting to make peace by killing thousands and please forgive us for all the civilians killed in the way...boo hoo... I call it as I sees it.................. shame....
Don't go trying to pass water for piss....
DD |
Would Israel have done any of what DD says or what they do if Hamas and Hizzbollah and Iran weren't trying to destroy them?
If Hizzbollah is dedicated to destroying Israel then Israel is right to go after them. Nothing else needed.
Israel doesn't have to accept their war. And they don't have to wait around for Hizzbollah to hit them the next time. Is there any nation anywhere that woudl accept that? |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:58 am Post subject: |
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[quote="ddeubel"]
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| Territorial integrity because of continued occupation of Lebanese territory |
Cr*p. Israel fully withdrew from lebanon 6 years ago. This withdrawal was closely monitored by international observers and they withdrew behind an internationally recognised border, without reservations. What lebanese territory?? Once again, the sheba farms belonged to Syria, not Lebanon. israel has already agreed to withdraw from this tiny area.
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| they also see Israel operating as judge, jury and executioner in the West Bank, |
Is the west bank part of Lebanon? No.
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| Your use of the words..."peaceful neighbour " are disengineous |
israel has done nothing hostile to Lebanon for 6 years. Which is why a group of Syrian terrorists were able to set themselves up there so well.
Whatever israel does, the arabs will keep gunning for them. They have run out of good excuses now. Israel handed back gaza... and made numerous other concessions, which although imperfect, were a starting point for Arabs to respond to.
I remember watching CNN live on the 2nd day of this conflict. the Israeli Pm offered talks to resolve the situation and pursue a good relationship with Lebanon. The response from the Leb govt. was a refusal and sidestep. They actually don't want a peaceful co-existence. They want to keep stoking the fire. This barely disguised reality will get worse now that hesbollah are stronger than ever before, and israel is percieved to have lost the current offensive. |
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