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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer |
Sorry, but I think this one is going to stay stuck in the ridicule stage. |
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cwemory
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Gunpo, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: |
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from Noam Chomsky's blog on ZNet:
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9-11: Institutional Analysis vs. Conspiracy Theory
The following is an exchange between a ZNet Sustainer and Noam Chomsky, which took place in the Sustainer Web Board where Noam hosts a forum...
ZNet Sustainer: Dear Noam, There is much documentation observed and uncovered by the 911 families themselves suggesting a criminal conspiracy within the Bush Administration to cover-up the 9/11 attacks (see DVD, 9/11: Press for Truth). Additionally, much evidence has been put forward to question the official version of events. This has come in part from Paul Thompson, an activist who has creatively established the 9/11 Timeline, a free 9/11 investigative database for activist researchers, which now, according to The Village Voice�s James Ridgeway, rivals the 9/11 Commission�s report in accuracy and lucidity. http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0416,mondo1,52830,6.html www.cooperativeresearch.org
Noam Chomsky: Hard for me to respond to the rest of the letter, because I am not persuaded by the assumption that much documentation and other evidence has been uncovered. To determine that, we'd have to investigate the alleged evidence. Take, say, the physical evidence. There are ways to assess that: submit it to specialists -- of whom there are thousands -- who have the requisite background in civil-mechanical engineering, materials science, building construction, etc., for review and analysis; and one cannot gain the required knowledge by surfing the internet. In fact, that's been done, by the professional association of civil engineers. Or, take the course pursued by anyone who thinks they have made a genuine discovery: submit it to a serious journal for peer review and publication. To my knowledge, there isn't a single submission.
ZNet Sustainer: A question that arises for me is that regardless of this issue, how do I as an activist prevent myself from getting distracted by such things as conspiracy theories instead of focusing on the bigger picture of the institutional analysis of private profit over people?
Noam Chomsky: I think this reaches the heart of the matter. One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. How do you personally set priorities? That's of course up to you. I've explained my priorities often, in print as well as elsewhere, but we have to make our own judgments. |
rest here: http://blog.zmag.org/node/2779 |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: |
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I would point out that it is activism based on what is perceived as conspiracy, etc., that gets the ball rolling. It is not as if the conspirators publish their activities.
As for getting peer reviewed: does anyone believe any serious journal would publish, say, Jones' work, regardless of how well done? Further, where does the evidence come from for proper research when the gov't won't allow access to it nor any of the evidence gathered by the commission of omission? |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| As for getting peer reviewed: does anyone believe any serious journal would publish, say, Jones' work, regardless of how well done? |
If the evidence stood up, why wouldn't they publish it? Surely the tentacles of conspiracy can't have reached all the world's engineering journals? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
As for getting peer reviewed: does anyone believe any serious journal would publish, say, Jones' work, regardless of how well done? |
Yes. If it was a scientific paper.
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| Further, where does the evidence come from for proper research when the gov't won't allow access to it nor any of the evidence gathered by the commission of omission? |
There are many things he could do independent research on. For example:
Why doesn't he show how it's impossible for a steel frame skyscraper to collapse due to fire alone. That would save the construction industry millions if not billions on fireproofing.
Or he could show how easy it is to bring a skyscraper down with thermite. The demolition industry is wasting countless hours preparing demolition jobs when a little thermite would do the trick.
Things like that would be of interest to a lot of people and help prove his case at the same time. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| The demolition industry is wasting countless hours preparing demolition jobs when a little thermite would do the trick. |
The demolition industry uses thermite regularly already. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: |
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I'm still shellshocked that Chomsky is part of the cover-up.
Then again, he is a Jew. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting fact:
Many of the victim's families who died in the WTC collapse are outspoken critics of the US Government's invovlement.
On the other hand, those families who victims were aboard the supposedly hijakced planes have never publically spoken out against the Government's role or questioned the lack of response from NORAD, the US air force or the 9/11 Commission's report.
They've pretty much accepted the Official Conspiracy Version of things.
Why the descrepancY?
http://www.rense.com/general74/wont.htm |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Meegook wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The demolition industry is wasting countless hours preparing demolition jobs when a little thermite would do the trick. |
The demolition industry uses thermite regularly already. |
Cite?
I was told be EFLTrainer that it wasn't. Looking at the Wiki entry (taken with a grain of salt), I don't see any uses in demolition mentioned.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=66867&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195 (Page 14 of the other 9/11 thread)
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| So how often is burning thermite found at the bottom of controlled demolition piles? How much thermite would you need to maintain a fire for 3 weeks? |
Never. It's not used for demolition, so far as I know. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
As for getting peer reviewed: does anyone believe any serious journal would publish, say, Jones' work, regardless of how well done? |
Yes. If it was a scientific paper.
| Quote: |
| Further, where does the evidence come from for proper research when the gov't won't allow access to it nor any of the evidence gathered by the commission of omission? |
There are many things he could do independent research on. For example:
Why doesn't he show how it's impossible for a steel frame skyscraper to collapse due to fire alone. That would save the construction industry millions if not billions on fireproofing.
Or he could show how easy it is to bring a skyscraper down with thermite. The demolition industry is wasting countless hours preparing demolition jobs when a little thermite would do the trick.
Things like that would be of interest to a lot of people and help prove his case at the same time. |
Yes, and the demolition experts now can save gazzoodles in time and effort. Since 9/11, they now know they no longer need to carefully plan demolitions. They only need to dump kerosene onto a pile of old rugs and office furnature and set her ablaze, 'voila'.... thar she blows.  |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| Yes, and the demolition experts now can save gazzoodles in time and effort. Since 9/11, they now know they no longer need to carefully plan demolitions. They only need to dump kerosene onto a pile of old rugs and office furnature and set her ablaze, 'voila'.... thar she blows. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| Yes, and the demolition experts now can save gazzoodles in time and effort. Since 9/11, they now know they no longer need to carefully plan demolitions. They only need to dump kerosene onto a pile of old rugs and office furnature and set her ablaze, 'voila'.... thar she blows. |
If by 'dump kerosene' you mean 'crash jet-fuel-laden 767s' you'd be just that tiny bit closer to the situation.
And some waygug-in, some advice: if Meegook high-fives you, wash your hands afterwards. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15398.htm
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| Prof. Zelikow�s area of academic expertise is the creation and maintenance of, in his words, �public myths� or �public presumptions� which he defines as �beliefs (1) thought to be true ( although not necessarily known with certainty) and (2) shared in common within the relevant political community.� In his academic work and elsewhere he has taken a special interest in what he has called �searing� or �molding� events (that) take on transcendent� importance and therefore retain their power even as the experiencing generation passes from the scene�.He has noted that �a history�s narrative power is typically linked to how readers relate to the actions of individuals in the history; if readers cannot make the connection to their own lives, then a history may fail to engage them at all.� (�Thinking about Political History� Miller center Report, winter 1999, p 5-7 |
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| �In the Nov-Dec 1998 issue of Foreign Affairs he (Zelikow) co-authored (with the former head of the CIA) an article entitled �Catastrophic Terrorism� in which he speculated that if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center had succeeded �the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it. Such an act of catastrophic terrorism would be a watershed event in American history. It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented in peacetime and undermine America�s fundamental sense of security, as did the Soviet atomic bomb test in 1949. Like Pearl Harbor, the event would divide our past and future into a before and after. The United States might respond with draconian measures scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force.� (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_D._Zelikow) |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Jet fuel is kerosene.
Jet fuel
From Wikipedia
"Jet fuel is a type of aviation fuel designed for use in jet-engined aircraft.
The most common fuel is a kerosene/paraffin oil-based fuel classified as JET A-1, which is produced to an internationally standardized set of specifications. In the United States only, a version of JET A-1 known as JET A is also used."
When ever someone doesn't know a simple fact like that, or doesn't take the time to check it out, and now that it's so easy to click a mouse to fill a knowlege void, shows me the caliber of who I'm dealing with.
I'd put someone who didn't know or didn't check this simple fact at a .22 caliber. Could barely kill himself if his method of thinking was a bullet.
Last edited by Meegook on Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:11 am; edited 3 times in total |
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