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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Gee, you're a bit of a plonker, aren't you. |
And here I always thought you were one of the more civilized people on this board. And it turns out your EFLLite.
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| While everyone else is using their 45 minues eating their lunch, taking a stroll to stretch their legs and improve their circulation, defecating and urinating, she is expected to be sitting down holed up in a corner using that time to express her milk, because YOU believe she should only have the extra 15 minutes so that she may total an hour. |
She is not "expected" to use that time for anything. It she wants, she can sit on the toilet for 45 minutes, take a 45 minute nap, or express milk for those 45 minutes. It's her choice. Sometimes we have to make tough choices in life.
Anyways, good luck to her. I don't see how she'll survive the first week of residency though. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
Why do I have to write a thesis about what is reasonable? I'm not handing in an assignment for a grade! There are so many variables and different circumstances that would have to be taken into account. One would have to give much thought to each scenario. |
What kind of college did you go to? Did they teach you how to work with logic?
Let me give you a start:
The "right' of a woman to breastfeed ends when it:
a) never. A mother always has the right to breastfeed, when and where she wants
b) puts the life of another human in jeopardy
c) conflicts with a nationwide measuring of ability
d) interferes with the fundamental nature of a job
e) cause other people discomfort
I'm sure we could come up with a few more cases, but that seems like a good start. If that's what you consider a "thesis" you should consider yourself lucky to have a degree. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| caniff wrote: |
There should be some accomodation, as I previously said (after waffling on my views).
Perhaps a curtain (like a shower curtain) can contain the milk-expressing test-taker's desk and chair, which would be equipped with CCTV that would be monitored by female staff to make sure that she only expressed her milk, and isn't actually cheating on the test.
Ridiculous idea?  |
They offered her a separate room to take the test in. Sounds more than reasonable to me. |
A seperate room doesn't assist with the temporal problem. How can she write her test, when both her hands are held to her breasts? Perhaps she could then lean forward, and hold the pen with her mouth, and write by manouvering her head? Simply being in a seperate room means she has privacy - but she loses precious test-taking time by pumping her milk.
A seperate room is not in anyway a solution. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Gee, you're a bit of a plonker, aren't you. |
And here I always thought you were one of the more civilized people on this board. And it turns out your EFLLite. |
Is that so, little friend?
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| Quote: |
| While everyone else is using their 45 minues eating their lunch, taking a stroll to stretch their legs and improve their circulation, defecating and urinating, she is expected to be sitting down holed up in a corner using that time to express her milk, because YOU believe she should only have the extra 15 minutes so that she may total an hour. |
She is not "expected" to use that time for anything. It she wants, she can sit on the toilet for 45 minutes, take a 45 minute nap, or express milk for those 45 minutes. It's her choice. Sometimes we have to make tough choices in life.
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But it leaves her at quite a disadvantage, and forces her to choose between her health and the test. The consequences of her not expressing her milk can be unpleasant to dire, if it leads to mastitis.
It is not a choice she need make, as the the solution is so simple and reasonable. A couple of breaks in the test for her to express her milk does not really cause much convenience at the end of the day, and I do not see how it disadvantages other test-takers. If it did give her an advantage - I would not agree with it. But I do not believe it does. Rather she is seriously disadvantaged, if she does not have these breaks.
Your objections are petty. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Huffing and puffing, huffdaddy wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Why do I have to write a thesis about what is reasonable? I'm not handing in an assignment for a grade! There are so many variables and different circumstances that would have to be taken into account. One would have to give much thought to each scenario. |
What kind of college did you go to? Did they teach you how to work with logic?
Let me give you a start:
The "right' of a woman to breastfeed ends when it:
a) never. A mother always has the right to breastfeed, when and where she wants
b) puts the life of another human in jeopardy
c) conflicts with a nationwide measuring of ability
d) interferes with the fundamental nature of a job
e) cause other people discomfort
I'm sure we could come up with a few more cases, but that seems like a good start. If that's what you consider a "thesis" you should consider yourself lucky to have a degree. |
It is not even reasonable for you to DEMAND that I give you a list of when or when not breastfeeding is appropriate. This is utterly stupid. This is a bloody message board. There is no rule that I do so. And I will not be dictated to in such a bizarre way.
I believe it is reasonable for a breastfeeding mum to have such breaks in a test. Until I see that that results in c) on your list, I will not change my mind.
Because I believe such a break is reasonable, you, with your own special huff and puff logic, then extrapolated that to mean that I therefore believed it is quite appropriate for a woman doctor to suspend a consultation with a patient in order to express her milk. Did you ever study logic? It doesn't seem so. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I do not want to spend anymore time on this thread. I therefore concede to HuffDaddy that he is quite right, and that the sky will fall in due to this reckless decision. It has opened the floodgates, and potential catastrophe looms. From this day forth, millions of reckless breastfeeding mums will abandon all reason and sense of perspective or civil responsibility. Women will be unbuttoning their blouses willy nilly, wihout any thought at all for their circumstance or the consequences of their selfish actions. Planes will fall out of skies. Whole cities will burn as female firefighters calmly get out their pumping equipment, and watch the pretty fireworks. Thousands of patients will die on the operating table, as female surgeons calmly walk off from emergency lifesaving procedures to produce a bottle of milk. Wars will be lost, as female soldiers on the front rip off their flak jackets, and pull out their breasts. Motorways will be choked, as women drivers calmly come to a halt, and whip out their tits, while traffic backs up behind them.
Yes, huffdaddy, you are right and I am terribly wrong.
Good bye. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| She already gets to spread the test over TWO DAYS instead of ONE because of her LD. That has been made clear already. Now she wants MORE than twice the time! She already gets extra breaks! Jeez, nect thing Big Bird's going to demand they pump the breast for her! |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
I do not want to spend anymore time on this thread. I therefore concede to HuffDaddy that he is quite right, and that the sky will fall in due to this reckless decision. It has opened the floodgates, and potential catastrophe looms. From this day forth, millions of reckless breastfeeding mums will abandon all reason and sense of perspective or civil responsibility. Women will be unbuttoning their blouses willy nilly, wihout any thought at all for their circumstance or the consequences of their selfish actions. Planes will fall out of skies. Whole cities will burn as female firefighters calmly get out their pumping equipment, and watch the pretty fireworks. Thousands of patients will die on the operating table, as female surgeons calmly walk off from emergency lifesaving procedures to produce a bottle of milk. Wars will be lost, as female soldiers on the front rip off their flak jackets, and pull out their breasts. Motorways will be choked, as women drivers calmly come to a halt, and whip out their tits, while traffic backs up behind them.
Yes, huffdaddy, you are right and I am terribly wrong.
Good bye. |
Too bad, because I think you had a pretty good case. I hate it when a poster is allowed to repeat the same fallacious "arguments" over and over again in such a belligerent way, demanding answers to questions that aren't relevant to the subject at hand. (About the ER doctors, soldiers, firefighters, etc.) I've seen it happen in other threads, and it's annoying. It really gets in the way of a civil discussion.
That little dig about "terrorism" was another Dave's classic, wasn't it? I'd really like to see the mods step in in these cases, and keep these kinds of conversations on track so the rest of us can learn something. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Big Bird, you've said more than once that you're done with this thread.
Admit it, this thread is smack... |
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seoulshock
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
It is not even reasonable for you to DEMAND that I give you a list of when or when not breastfeeding is appropriate. This is utterly stupid. This is a bloody message board. There is no rule that I do so. And I will not be dictated to in such a bizarre way. . |
I think it would be great to try to understand each other. No one is demanding anything from you as if your life depended on it. I want to (or more acuratly, wanted to) understand with good reason why you and others think the way you do. Sure it is a message board and nobility is a foreign concept but some of us just want to understand. Please don't take offense to this, it's just a means to relate.
Secondly, I think it would be kind for people to distinguish early on whether they are serious about having a discussion or just want to play. |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
Well, it takes me about 20-30 minutes to take a quality dump, including reading time. Bump that up to about 2 hours, and then it would be a comparable scenario.  |
Add another 20 minutes for those who are lucky enough to date a fine man like Terrence Howard...lol |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Atavistic wrote: |
| She already gets to spread the test over TWO DAYS instead of ONE because of her LD. That has been made clear already. Now she wants MORE than twice the time! She already gets extra breaks! Jeez, nect thing Big Bird's going to demand they pump the breast for her! |
Truth be told, there may be grounds for such an action. It could overwork her fingers and, therefore, give her a disadvantage on the test.  |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
It is not even reasonable for you to DEMAND that I give you a list of when or when not breastfeeding is appropriate. This is utterly stupid. This is a bloody message board. There is no rule that I do so. And I will not be dictated to in such a bizarre way. . |
I think it would be great to try to understand each other. No one is demanding anything from you as if your life depended on it. I want to (or more acuratly, wanted to) understand with good reason why you and others think the way you do. Sure it is a message board and nobility is a foreign concept but some of us just want to understand. Please don't take offense to this, it's just a means to relate. |
Well said. We both (BB and I) believe "reasonable" accommodations should be made. The whole issue is what we believe is "reasonable." If you're unwilling to establish that very basic premises, this discussion, has BB has proven, will go nowhere.
I believe the accommodations offered - breaks when sections are done early and her own testing room - are reasonable. That no nursing mothers before her seemed to have had a problem with those accommodations would tend to support my position.
What I think is unreasonable is altering the format of a national, standardized exam, which is used to evaluate the competency of people entering residency. Especially when residency itself will be 10x's tougher on her attempts to maintain a pumping schedule. There's no point in allowing her the added accommodations on the test when she won't get anywhere close to those accommodations after she passes the test (if she does pass it). |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Too bad, because I think you had a pretty good case. I hate it when a poster is allowed to repeat the same fallacious "arguments" over and over again in such a belligerent way, demanding answers to questions that aren't relevant to the subject at hand. (About the ER doctors, soldiers, firefighters, etc.) I've seen it happen in other threads, and it's annoying. It really gets in the way of a civil discussion. |
Oh please. If you want to be on the side of civility, you might want to avoid the poster who likes to pull out an ad hominems in almost every post.
And yes, her "right" to express milk during an ER situation is relevant to the discussion. She plans on entering residency this fall. What will she do when she's the only resident on duty and has to pull a busy overnight shift with no breaks? |
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