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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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 Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: Nuclear Technology - OK for Israel But Not Iran. Why? |
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Simple question.
It's conservatively estimated Israel has 200 or so nuclear warheads.
Why is it okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons but Iran can't build nuclear power plants for energy purposes?
"Israel is widely believed to possess a substantial arsenal of nuclear weapons and intermediate-range ballistic missiles to deliver them. There is also speculation that it may have chemical and biological weapons programs. Israel acceded to the Geneva Protocol on February 20, 1969.
"Israel is widely believed to be one of the nuclear-armed nation-states not within the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), the other three being India, Pakistan and North Korea.[2]
[Why is it not okay for North Korea to not have nuclear weapons but okay for Israel]?
"Israel has operated three modern German-built Dolphin-class submarines [14] since 1999. Various reports indicate that these submarines are equipped with American-made Harpoon missiles modified to carry small nuclear warheads [15] and/or the larger Israeli-made "Popeye Turbo" cruise missiles, originally developed for air-to-ground strike capability [16].
No known nuclear weapons test has been conducted within Israel, although the boosted weapons shown in Vanunu's photographs may well have required testing."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
Why does Israel get a pass on its nuclear program and Iran doesn't?
If there is no known nuclear weapons test within Israel, how did they develop their program? Who aided them?
"In 1993, the U.S. Congress Office of Technology Assessment WMD proliferation assessment recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities."
So, it's okay that Israel has WMD and nobody says a word? Israel reportedly used illegal weapons against Lebanon recently. That's okay?
Why is the focus on the Arabs and not Israel? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| Can you show where an Israeli head of state has said anything about wiping out another country? |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| So, if you don't say you're wanting to eliminate a problem in the neighborhood, it's okay to have nukes? |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Meegook wrote: |
| So, if you don't say you're wanting to eliminate a problem in the neighborhood, it's okay to have nukes? |
You know in the US, criminal cannot own guns, but the citizens without any criminal record can own one or as many as they like to own. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Iran hasn't attacked Israel as far as I know. But there are several examples of Israel attacking its neighbors. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Meegook wrote: |
| ...is it okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons but Iran can't build nuclear power plants for energy purposes? |
Yes, that's right. Why? Because we have a vote on the Security Council and more nuclear weapons and conventional armaments than everybody else combined and we say so.
Next question...
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Might makes right? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| Meegook wrote: |
| Might makes right? |
Responsible govt makes right.
Iran is run by a lunatic who is threatening to use nukes on the neighbors, as is North korea.
Israel does not make speeches threatening to wipe Iran or even palestine off the map.
Isn't it obvious?
Israel will only use nuclear weapons in self defence. For example if the neighbouring countries teamed together to invade Israel. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Israel does not make speeches |
So, not making speeches makes having nukes ok?
You're pretty confident that Israel will only operate in self defense?
Arab parliamentarians condemn Gaza offensive
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
DAMASCUS
Arab parliamentarians meeting in Syria on Saturday condemned the IDF's offensive in the Gaza Strip, calling it a mass genocide.
In a statement issued at the end of their one-day meeting, participants from 22 Arab countries at the Interim Arab Parliament's gathering denounced the "daily Israeli attacks and repeated massacres against the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip" and the arrest of the head of the Palestinian parliament and cabinet ministers, calling for their immediate release.
http://tinyurl.com/wgrt8
Don't make a speech, just attack and commit genocide and that's self-defense?
Last edited by Meegook on Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:51 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Meegook"]
| Quote: |
| So, not making speeches makes having nukes ok? |
israel has never xpressed any desire to occupy or destroy its neighbours.
| Quote: |
| You're pretty confident that Israel will only operate in self defense? |
Well thats been the case up til now. You would probably argue different but to all Israeli aggression there has been provocation and threat to cause it. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| israel has never xpressed any desire to occupy |
Hasn't it been occupying Palestinian land since 1948?
| Quote: |
| Israel has never xpressed any desire to occupy or destroy its neighbours. |
Israel is different than the Iranians because it's more secretive than the Iranians or Arabs?
It just goes in and bulldozes the homes of the Palistinians and takes over the land and because it didn't say anything and because the Jewish controlled MSM didn't report it, it's okay?
"Israeli forces bulldoze Palestinian lands in Negev desert"
2/3/2005 6:30:00 PM GMT
Palestinian sources said on Thursday that Israeli forces bulldozed 4,000 dunums of Palestinian agricultural lands in the Al-Araqib area in the Negev desert.
Sources said that 1,000 Israeli border police officers, backed by 16 bulldozers that belong to the so-called "Israel's lands department�, raided the Al-Araqib area and bulldozed 4,000 dunums of agricultural lands that cultivate cereals.
They added that the lands belonged to the clans of Al-Touri, Al-Aqabi, Abu Siyam, and Abu Zayed.
Witnesses also said that Israeli forces sealed off all roads leading to the area to prevent the owners from entering the lands.
They also said that the spokeswoman of the "Israel's lands department� claimed that the goal of the operation was to "salvage the state's lands from the Arab Bedouins who seized and exploited them".
Arab residents dismissed the allegations, saying that Arab nomads owned these lands before the creation of the Jewish state in 1948.
They also accused Israel of trying to seize the 11,000 dunums of the area's agricultural lands in an attempt to bring Jewish settlers to live there with the intention of changing the demographic balance in the Jews' favor.
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=6940
From an article in the December 4 New York Times:
"Israel Resumes Sealing of Houses as Punishment
"For years, Israel [had a ] policy of demolishing or sealing houses in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to combat Palestinian resistance to Israel's military occupation. Hundreds of homes were shut or destroyed, most in the first four years of the uprising that began in December 1987..... Palestinians say, and human rights groups agree, that the policy violates international law, amounting to collective punishment while doing nothing to to stop the uprising. If anything, they say, resentment bred by such practices produces even more rock throwers and killers."
The United States Constitution prohibits "bills of attainder"--laws or judgments penalizing human beings for being related by blood to a criminal. Any American Jew (I am one) who is sensitive to constitutional rights and protections will be hard put to defend Israel's actions of closing or destroying Palestinian houses. Instead, such issues are passed over in silence, or weakly rationalized: "Conditions are different there," and "You can't comment unless you have lived there," are two commonly heard statements."
http://www.spectacle.org/195/bulldoze.html |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:10 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Meegook"]
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| Hasn't it been occupying Palestinian land since 1948? |
Well this debate has already been done to death on here previously, so I'm not about to go back to it. The answer in brief, is no. Israel is on land belonging to and inhabited by jews for millenia. Jews have occupied that area with a virtually unchanged language and culture for 3000 years. "palestinians" are the recent arrivals by comparison.
| Quote: |
| the goal of the operation was to "salvage the state's lands from the Arab Bedouins who seized and exploited them". |
Exactly right. These were Jewish lands before Arabs siezed them.
Don't you think if Israel wanted to utterly destroy, nuke, or occupy their useless neighbours, they would have done so a loooong time ago? A "greater israel" has never been the objective of the Jews. in fact the territory of Israel is strictly laid down in the bible, for one thing. Jews believe that God's blessing is on them only if they stay within their own borders. Their ambition goes only so far as holding their own. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Opinion without substantiation.
The Jew's temple was destroyed in 70 AD. The Jews were scattered throughout the world at that time.
They rejected the Messiah and paid the price - their temple destroyed and their people scattered.
So, since the Jews were not in Palestine since about 70 AD. how can you say they have been in Palestine for 3000 years, when they were not there after 70AD and only forced their way back in in 1948?
And the Jews that came back weren't the 'real' Jews, but Kazakhstani Jews.
Last edited by Meegook on Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: Re: Nuclear Technology - OK for Israel But Not Iran. Why? |
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| Meegook wrote: |
Simple question.
It's conservatively estimated Israel has 200 or so nuclear warheads.
Why is it okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons but Iran can't build nuclear power plants for energy purposes?
"Israel is widely believed to possess a substantial arsenal of nuclear weapons and intermediate-range ballistic missiles to deliver them. There is also speculation that it may have chemical and biological weapons programs. Israel acceded to the Geneva Protocol on February 20, 1969.
"Israel is widely believed to be one of the nuclear-armed nation-states not within the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), the other three being India, Pakistan and North Korea.[2]
[Why is it not okay for North Korea to not have nuclear weapons but okay for Israel]?
"Israel has operated three modern German-built Dolphin-class submarines [14] since 1999. Various reports indicate that these submarines are equipped with American-made Harpoon missiles modified to carry small nuclear warheads [15] and/or the larger Israeli-made "Popeye Turbo" cruise missiles, originally developed for air-to-ground strike capability [16].
No known nuclear weapons test has been conducted within Israel, although the boosted weapons shown in Vanunu's photographs may well have required testing."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
Why does Israel get a pass on its nuclear program and Iran doesn't?
If there is no known nuclear weapons test within Israel, how did they develop their program? Who aided them?
"In 1993, the U.S. Congress Office of Technology Assessment WMD proliferation assessment recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities."
So, it's okay that Israel has WMD and nobody says a word? Israel reportedly used illegal weapons against Lebanon recently. That's okay?
Why is the focus on the Arabs and not Israel? |
Simple answer Megook..Use common sense.
Any madman who declares it his goal to wipe out another race of people should not be allowed to have the means to do so: IE: Nuclear weapons.
And Iran doesnt just want energy.
Even the U found designs for nuclear warheads in Iran. Warheads that would fir Iranian missiles. WHy would you draw up designs for nuclear warheads if you arent going to make a nuke?
You wouldnt give a gun to someoen threatening to shoot people. Like wise, you don't let a madman ho wants to wipe out another race have the means to do so. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Any madman who declares it his goal to wipe out another race of people should not be allowed to have the means to do so: |
You miss the point. If you don't admit your intent then it's okay to have the weapons?
If you actually start wiping out another race, ie. the Palestinians, but don't say anything, it's okay?
| Quote: |
| You wouldnt give a gun to someoen threatening to shoot people. |
Depends on why he was threatening to shoot someone.
We allow Israel to have all the nukes they want, in any way they want them, w/o signing any treaties, or allowing any inpsections, so why are they treated differently?
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Even the U found designs for nuclear warheads in Iran. |
You make many allegations, but support none of them.
| Quote: |
Like wise, you don't let a madman ho wants to wipe out another race have the means to do so. |
I would counter, then we'd better get Bush out of the White House asap. |
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