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Cure for cancer 'found'?
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:20 am    Post subject: Cure for cancer 'found'? Reply with quote

Researchers at the University of Alberta have found that DCA, a chemical that is already used to treat some illnesses in humans, causes the regression of all types of cancer cells.

http://www.depmed.ualberta.ca/dca/

You've probably never heard of it because it simply doesn't fit into the plans the drug companies. It has no patent.

http://www.depmed.ualberta.ca/dca/vid1.htm
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno. If I was working at a drug company and I had the cure for cancer at my finger tips, I don't exactly have to worry about being fired. A Nobel prize for Medicine would pretty much make me immune. I'm not sure how drug companies could keep things like that secret. Someone would surely quit, take a safe job at a university researching it, and then roll out the discovery and collect his Nobel prize and bullet proof immunity. And if the guy has his science ducks in a row, he would have no problem finding some biotech company to fund his research to the hilt. (Or the National Science Foundation. Does big pharma control the NSF? Your conspiracy widens a lot...)

The amount of money a drug company would have to pay a scientist to keep quiet and NOT win the Nobel prize, fame, and not become one of the recognized giant shoulders upon which other scientists proudly stand, would probably be equal to what the drug company would earn keeping it all hush hush.

I mean, what would YOU do if you were a scientist working for big pharma and you had the magic bullet for cancer?

By way of example, look at the guy who proved H Pylori was the cause of most ulcers. How much money was big pharma making treating ulcers? Yeah it sucks that a simple antibiotic was proven effective. Or what about drug companies that were making loads off of menopausal women taking hormone replacement therapy? And then it was shown in a definitive study it was not only doing no good but was doing great harm. Why didn't the octopus that is big pharma crush that one? Or what about surgeons who were making loads of money tying off veins around the heart to cure angina, when one of their own demonstrated it had no effect and it was just placebo? Or TB. There was a whole industry devoted to treating TB. Or polio. There are a legion of examples where cash cows were over thrown by researchers.


Last edited by mindmetoo on Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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Pligganease



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate big medicine, and I firmly believe they have cures for so many things that they keep under lock and key until they need it for their own profits.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pligganease wrote:
I hate big medicine, and I firmly believe they have cures for so many things that they keep under lock and key until they need it for their own profits.


Did you read anything I wrote?

What would you do if you were a researcher at a company, found the cure for something major, and you were told not to talk about it?
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Grimalkin



Joined: 22 May 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to work in medical information with one of the world's biggest pharmaceutical companies so I completely understand this.


Quote:
You've probably never heard of it because it simply doesn't fit into the plans the drug companies. It has no patent.



You would not believe the number of very effective drugs that were taken off the market simply because they were too old to be profitable only to be replaced by less effective, much more expensive, highly marketed drugs.


I fully believe that companies suppressed cures for diseases because it was much more lucrative to keep patients on maintenance therapy (where they continued as customers for life) rather than market a drug that would cure them but only generate a few sales per patient before they were cured.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimalkin wrote:

You would not believe the number of very effective drugs that were taken off the market simply because they were too old to be profitable only to be replaced by less effective, much more expensive, highly marketed drugs.


Could you name three?

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/conspiracy.html
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Atassi



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: 평택

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Cure for cancer 'found'? Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
causes the regression of all types of cancer cells.


That's not what the website says, and probably not true.

Don't get me wrong though, as it's good that advances are being made.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Cure for cancer 'found'? Reply with quote

Atassi wrote:
Hollywoodaction wrote:
causes the regression of all types of cancer cells.


That's not what the website says, and probably not true.

Don't get me wrong though, as it's good that advances are being made.


Watch the video links. It's exactly what they are saying. 3 weeks on the drug and the tumors had greatly shrunken in size and were replaced by new healthy cells.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
Grimalkin wrote:

You would not believe the number of very effective drugs that were taken off the market simply because they were too old to be profitable only to be replaced by less effective, much more expensive, highly marketed drugs.


Could you name three?

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/conspiracy.html


This is not a natural cure, it's an old medicine that has been found to treat cancer. Think of it as a cheap and safe form of chemotherapy.
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Grimalkin



Joined: 22 May 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
Grimalkin wrote:

You would not believe the number of very effective drugs that were taken off the market simply because they were too old to be profitable only to be replaced by less effective, much more expensive, highly marketed drugs.


Could you name three?

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/conspiracy.html


Yes.


Altho' I'd rather pm you the names of them if that's okay with you?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:
Grimalkin wrote:

You would not believe the number of very effective drugs that were taken off the market simply because they were too old to be profitable only to be replaced by less effective, much more expensive, highly marketed drugs.


Could you name three?

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/conspiracy.html


This is not a natural cure, it's an old medicine that has been found to treat cancer. Think of it as a cheap and safe form of chemotherapy.


The article does talk a bit about claims "natural" substances like herbs cure cancer but it does address the notion that there's a big pharma conspiracy to suppress some magic bullet cure.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimalkin wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:
Grimalkin wrote:

You would not believe the number of very effective drugs that were taken off the market simply because they were too old to be profitable only to be replaced by less effective, much more expensive, highly marketed drugs.


Could you name three?

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/conspiracy.html


Yes.


Altho' I'd rather pm you the names of them if that's okay with you?


Well, I'd like to debate it openly. That's your interpretation but there are two sides to every story.

But let me grant you that this happens. What percentage of drugs does this happen to? It's like saying because some car mechanics do unnecessary repairs, all car mechanics will. No. Sure some industries are rife with abuse. Cough. Hagwons. But a tightly regulated industry like phrama, where lives and massive lawsuits are on the line, you can't get away with stuff like that very much. There are high profile cases, against the backdrop of thousands of safe and effective drugs, just as there are some high profile cases like Mark Carr who doesn't represent us. Right? But more to the point, what did the drugs treat?

The claim is a major scourge of public health has a cure that's being suppressed by big pharma. The problem here is big phrama aren't the only ones who research drugs. As the original post indicates, cancer research is very much in the public domain. Major breakthroughs in very large diseases (cancer, diabetes, aids, etc.) just don't come out of the secret closed labs of big pharma. In fact, it's pretty hard to do major science in secret. You gotta go to conferences. You have to talk about your ideas with people in the field. Indeed big pharma finances public work being done in universities. It's pretty hard to keep that quiet.

Yes, where money is involved, big corporations abuse the system. But it's a big jump to go from some abuse to a massive conspiracy to deny people the cure for cancer. If the OP's article leads to some kind of cure, it really flies in the face of the very notion. Look. Here's science working. Because a drug company didn't notice its drug also shrinks tumors or didn't have the foresight to test that, doesn't mean conspiracy.

And again let me repose the question:

What would YOU do if YOU discovered the cure for cancer but were told by your employer to bury it?

I think the obvious answer is we would follow our ethics and bring our project to a public university. Do scientists lose the ethics we share when they put on a lab coat?

Regarding the actual drug, it's a legal, safe, effective drug. As far as I understand, a doctor can prescribe a legal drug, even if it's not for the intended purpose. I mean, doctors prescribed estrogen for menopause, despite the lack of clinical trials. The lack of a pharma company unwilling to invest in an expensive clinical trial doesn't mean doctors can't use it to treat cancer.

But is the free market system (companies need profits to get money to conduct expensive clinical trials) automatically a conspiracy by big pharma? I'd like a jet pack, but there isn't a market for one. Conspiracy to deny me a jet pack? This is the bed we've made and generally we all profit from it. Don't like it? Ask the government to take more of your tax dollars for more public medical research.


Last edited by mindmetoo on Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some interesting reading for you:

http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/cancer.html

Does this mean that ALL of the people who work in the cancer research industry are consciously part of a conspiracy to hold back a cure for cancer? Author G.Edward Griffin explains ". . . let's face it, these people die from cancer like everybody else. . . [I]t's obvious that these people are not consciously holding back a control for cancer. It does mean, however, that the [pharmaceutical-chemical] cartel's medical monopoly has created a climate of bias in our educational system, in which scientific truth often is sacrificed to vested interests . . . [I]f the money is coming from drug companies, or indirectly from drug companies, the impetus is in the direction of drug research. That doesn't mean somebody blew the whistle and said "hey, don't research nutrition!" It just means that nobody is financing nutrition research. So it is a bias where scientific truth often is obscured by vested interest." (9) This point is similarly expressed by Dr. Sydney Singer: "Researchers are like prostitutes. They work for grant money. If there is no money for the projects they are personally interested in, they go where there is money. Their incomes come directly from their grants, not from the universities. And they want to please the granting source to get more grants in the future. Their careers depend on it." (10)




Money Spent on Fraudulent Research?
A large portion of money donated to cancer research by the public is spent on animal research which has, since its inception, been widely condemned as a waste of time and resources. For instance, consider the 1981 Congressional Testimony by Dr. Irwin Bross, former director of the Sloan-Kettering, the largest cancer research institute in the world, and then Director of Biostatistics at Roswell Park Memorial Institute for Cancer Research, Bufallo, NY: "The uselessness of most of the animal model studies is less well known. For example, the discovery of chemotherapeutic agents for the treatment of human cancer is widely-heralded as a triumph due to use of animal model systems. However, here again, these exaggerated claims are coming from or are endorsed by the same people who get the federal dollars for animal research. There is little, if any, factual evidence that would support these claims. Indeed, while conflicting animal results have often delayed and hampered advances in the war on cancer, they have never produced a single substantial advance either in the prevention or treatment of human cancer. For instance, practically all of the chemotherapeutic agents which are of value in the treatment of human cancer were found in a clinical context rather than in animal studies." (11)

In fact, many substances which cause cancer in humans are marketed as "safe" on the basis of animal tests. As expressed by Dr. Werner Hartinger of Germany, in regard to cancer-causing products of the pharmaceutical-petro-chemical industry, "Their constant consumption is legalised on the basis of misleading animal experiments . . . which seduce the consumer into a false sense of security." (12)
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
Hollywoodaction wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:
Grimalkin wrote:

You would not believe the number of very effective drugs that were taken off the market simply because they were too old to be profitable only to be replaced by less effective, much more expensive, highly marketed drugs.


Could you name three?

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/conspiracy.html


This is not a natural cure, it's an old medicine that has been found to treat cancer. Think of it as a cheap and safe form of chemotherapy.


The article does talk a bit about claims "natural" substances like herbs cure cancer but it does address the notion that there's a big pharma conspiracy to suppress some magic bullet cure.


Not exactly. Again, watch the video. They aren't pointing fingers at the pharmaceutical companies, which naturally unwilling to spend up to 100 million dollars to put this through medical trials to see others profit from it (pharmaceutical companies, after all, are accountable to their shareholders), but rather at the system that makes it difficult for independent researchers to put drugs such as this one through medical trials because they lack funding.

PS. This guy is a U of Alberta researcher, not some quack doctor. The university counts among its alumuni a World Chemisty Prize winner and a Nobel laureate. I also know that several Nobel Prize winners have worked at the University of Alberta at one point or another in their careers.


Last edited by Hollywoodaction on Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:
Hollywoodaction wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:
Grimalkin wrote:

You would not believe the number of very effective drugs that were taken off the market simply because they were too old to be profitable only to be replaced by less effective, much more expensive, highly marketed drugs.


Could you name three?

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/conspiracy.html


This is not a natural cure, it's an old medicine that has been found to treat cancer. Think of it as a cheap and safe form of chemotherapy.


The article does talk a bit about claims "natural" substances like herbs cure cancer but it does address the notion that there's a big pharma conspiracy to suppress some magic bullet cure.


Not exactly. Again, watch the video. They aren't pointing fingers at the pharmaceutical companies, who are naturally unwilling to spend up to 100 million dollars to put this through the trials for others to profit from it, but rather at the system that makes it difficult for independent researchers to put such drugs through trials for lack of funding.

PS. This guy is a U of Alberta researcher, not some quack doctor.
The university counts among its alumuni a World Chemisty Prize winner and a Nobel laureate. I also know that several Nobel Prize winners have worked at the University of Alberta at one point or another in their careers.


Let me repeat my other post:

Regarding the actual drug, it's a legal, safe, effective drug. As far as I understand, a doctor can prescribe a legal drug, even if it's not for the intended purpose. I mean, doctors prescribed estrogen for menopause, despite the lack of clinical trials. The lack of a pharma company unwilling to invest in an expensive clinical trial doesn't mean doctors can't use it to treat cancer.

But is the free market system (companies need profits to get money to conduct expensive clinical trials) automatically a conspiracy by big pharma? I'd like a jet pack, but there isn't a market for one. Conspiracy to deny me a jet pack? This is the bed we've made and generally we all profit from it. Don't like it? Ask the government to take more of your tax dollars for more public medical research.

The CTV report does seem to say "cheap drugs no longer under patent protection can't get the $100 million from a pharma company to do trials."

That's not conspiracy, a company having the cure and sitting on it to keep milking profitable drugs that treat but don't cure. That's economics. Many drugs that work in rats don't work in humans. It's a huge risk. If you hand over a large amount of your research to private industry, they need a profit motive. If you want to fix it, give more of your tax dollars for public science.
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