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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: Praying for a massive backlash |
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I hope this country will use recent events to completely overhaul their terrible attempt at English education. The dude's whole "10 minute job interview" comment really bugged me. These people here need to do some real in-depth, hardcore background checks and interviewing. The benefits will be twofold. First, weed out some of the freaks and unqualified. Second, potentially scare off those who are just coming here for "something to do" Perhaps with a lenghtier hiring practice they'll be turned off the entire thing. When I think back to 5 years ago when I fist came here, it's a joke. The same 10 minute interview for a guy who'd spent 6 years selling mutual funds. How the hell did they give me a job in a kindergarten without checking up more on me. Then, absolutely no training; just thrown into the "lion's den". Ridiculous.
This would be great because a decline in teachers would mean: A) an increase in pay for those of us here who take the job seriously, and B) a decline in the number of hogwans around. English in Korea is a joke because the demand for teachers has resulted in complete crap quality on both sides, foreign and Korean (especially Korean, in my books). They need to cut back and get some quality teachers. I'm sorry, but I'm sick of Korean co-teachers who think the sentence "Schindler's List was a funny movie" makes sense. It's no wonder the kids are so crap at English when their teachers can't even speak it.
And yes, I can pray for a "massive backlash" because Koreans are so non-confrontational that it will result in very little physical harm to us minorities. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem is that it will probably result in something pointless like us having to provide an original degree and sealed transcripts every 60 days and not something useful like actually having English speakers phone our references at former workplaces. |
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genezorm
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: Mokpo
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: Praying for a massive backlash |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| I'm sorry, but I'm sick of Korean co-teachers who think the sentence "Schindler's List was a funny movie" makes sense. It's no wonder the kids are so crap at English when their teachers can't even speak it. |
maybe they got schindler's list confused with life is beautiful....it was about the holocaust and was pretty funny |
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Masta_Don
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Hyehwa-dong, Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| They have to want to learn English first. Since that won't happen anytime soon I'm not too worried about the unqualified. As it stands, the number one requirement of an English teacher should be to know Korean. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yep.
I'd also like to see the bar raised for teaching visas. Maybe a degree plus a recognized TEFL certificate of some kind should be a requirement. Even a 90-hour TEFL course cert would make a big difference. I think there's something intrinsically wrong with giving people who have no interest in teaching a teaching job. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Changing the hiring practices would require Koreans admitting their culture allows this stuff to happen. Nothing will change. My god, they successfully fought against baby car seats. |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| Masta_Don wrote: |
| As it stands, the number one requirement of an English teacher should be to know Korean. |
I don't agree
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| The problem is that it will probably result in something pointless like us having to provide an original degree and sealed transcripts every 60 days and not something useful like actually having English speakers phone our references at former workplaces. |
Sad, but true. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
Yep.
I'd also like to see the bar raised for teaching visas. Maybe a degree plus a recognized TEFL certificate of some kind should be a requirement. Even a 90-hour TEFL course cert would make a big difference. I think there's something intrinsically wrong with giving people who have no interest in teaching a teaching job. |
I've been saying this for a while too. Plus it would be a good money-spinner for universities over here to offer them for newly-arrived teachers. |
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Masta_Don
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Hyehwa-dong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| As it stands, the number one requirement of an English teacher should be to know Korean. |
I don't have time for another rant today, I just finished a lengthy one earlier, but my take on it is that Koreans will not adopt English, even as a second language, becuz it bruises their collective ego (Hangeul is the best alphabet eva!~). Thus they don't want to learn English. Doesn't matter how good of teachers you throw at a student, if that student doesn't want to learn, they won't. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
Yep.
I'd also like to see the bar raised for teaching visas. Maybe a degree plus a recognized TEFL certificate of some kind should be a requirement. Even a 90-hour TEFL course cert would make a big difference. I think there's something intrinsically wrong with giving people who have no interest in teaching a teaching job. |
Only if it's provided in Korea at a minimal cost. Some kind of training program.
We don't need to fund these organizations like the C(U)LTA, which is geared toward teaching adults when most of us here teach kids, cost as much as $1,500 to $2,500 plus 5 weeks of lost work pay (another $2,000 to $2,500). Having to give up a total of $4,000 to $5,000 in fees and wages is far too much. |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Masta_Don wrote: |
| Newbie wrote: |
| As it stands, the number one requirement of an English teacher should be to know Korean. |
I don't have time for another rant today, I just finished a lengthy one earlier, but my take on it is that Koreans will not adopt English, even as a second language, becuz it bruises their collective ego (Hangeul is the best alphabet eva!~). Thus they don't want to learn English. Doesn't matter how good of teachers you throw at a student, if that student doesn't want to learn, they won't. |
I see what your saying, English will not make it as an offical second language. BUT, there is a sizeable minority of peeps who actually WANT to learn English. For them, the system needs to be fixed. English being the huge business it is now, you have nearly every little Jung-min and Su-min being thrown into an academy when they shouldn't. |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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It seems like it wouldn't be that hard for the Korean government to require all E2 holders to complete a TEFL course before getting their visa.
They could even offer it online for free or just how much it would take to cover their costs.
The challenge would be to create something that wasn't a lame-ass total waste of time. I wouldn't really put much faith in the Korean government to do this type of thing well. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| something useful like actually having English speakers phone our references at former workplaces. |
My employers started doing that a couple of years ago. Two other teachers and I were asked to come up with a better hiring procedure and interview process. We put background checks and calling references at the top of the list.
It has had positive effects. Then again you just never know until the person starts working for you.
I do think a basic criminal records check and a reference check are the minimal things an employer should do along with a simple degree verification with the applicants university.
As for TEFL courses...the quality of those course offerings varies wildly from 'a monkey with a lobotomy can finish it' to courses that do offer quality (albeit short) training.
The really effective path to take would be to require a degree in a teaching or education related field for starters and eventually some sort of teaching certification or ESL certification (ex: ESL certificate on top of your B.A.). That would however drastically affect the pool of available candidates and would mean significant changes in the hakwon industry to attract such teachers....
A solid middle ground here is degree verification, criminal records check, and a reference check. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
The really effective path to take would be to require a degree in a teaching or education related field for starters |
Thats ridiculous, and it would kill the industry here almost overnight. How many people have degrees in teaching/education? Of those, how many want to use them teaching in Korea? This country just does not provide the benefits to attract legitimately qualified teachers.
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| and eventually some sort of teaching certification or ESL certification (ex: ESL certificate on top of your B.A.). |
Now that I can agree with.
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| That would however drastically affect the pool of available candidates |
Not entirely: plenty of folks already have such quals, and for those that don't, a CELTA or TEFL is relatively easily obtained- (1-3 months of study).
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| and would mean significant changes in the hakwon industry to attract such teachers |
Could only be a good thing.. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| As for TEFL courses...the quality of those course offerings varies wildly from 'a monkey with a lobotomy can finish it' to courses that do offer quality (albeit short) training. |
The pertinent point is not the quality of the TEFL course but that the applicant has shown enough desire to teach English as a foreign language to sit a course.
The 90 hour TEFL course I did way back in 2000 was only about 400 USD and took 3 weeks. Approx 7 hours intensive every day. About half the class dropped out before the end. It was a no-bullsh_t course. I certainly would never have spent that money or slogged through that pretty tough course if I hadn't decided to have a go at teaching English for at least the forseeable future. Afterall, jobs were a dime-a-dozen in Korea at the time with only a degree required.
Wouldn't it be a great kick up the ass for the English industry in Korea if all the foreign teachers coming in had specific skills in that field? The relative scarcity of TEFL-certified teachers would force up the pay and make the hagwons/public schools take their FT's a lot more seriously.
I would dearly love to see TESL go from a largely amateur occupation to a professional one.
Like in the case of nurses. It was once thought that nursing was a low-level, any-sensible-girl-could-do-it, kind of job. Well, where I come from anyway, nursing has become a respected profession with tough standards in training and performance. |
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