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Should the British try to be more..well..British?

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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:30 am Post subject: Should the British try to be more..well..British?

Vaguely British

Quote:

The chief rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, unlike his gnarled, Thatcher-tending predecessor, is a good thing. Cambridge, but not too Cambridge, which is to say cool, but human. Afflicted professionally by his ultras, very much as Dr Rowan William is afflicted by queer-bashing literalist evangelicals, he shares a good deal with him. He is in fact a very Anglican chief rabbi.

He has just published a book (discussed on Radio 4's Start the Week), The Home we Build Together: Recreating Society, which is critical of multiculturalism. Where Britain is concerned, he wants everyone to join in, keep their loyalties, but more strongly feel part of this country. Unfortunately he feels that we are insufficiently defined as a nation and ought to do something about it. His response is, ironically, that we should be more like the United States. He proposes that like that country, we should have a national day and generally do more by way of self-celebration.

This is entirely well meant and entirely wrongheaded. I don't care too much for the ceremonial signing-on and avowals of new citizens introduced by David Blunkett, a man with none of the chief rabbi's virtues; rather an enforcer. And however tentative, this sort if thing is enforcement. As for the US, it is a country that proclaims individualism and practices it collectively; power-block corporations do everything possible to homogenise customer and employee.

I have made the point before that the obsession with the national flag, flying in profusion on private houses a thousand miles from both Mexican and Canadian borders, is weird, a supererogatory mix of bombast and self-doubt. "We are American," says Kansan to Kansan, pointlessly. But this Kansan is also denying the possibility of being an alien, a suspect and dubious foreigner.

I hope that people from Pakistan and Jamaica will come to feel British in a mild way, but not only will this take time, it should take time. Forcing the pace, bossing people and lecturing them about Britishness is the sort of slightly unpleasant thing which rightwingers in both major parties believe will win them support. I think of it as distinctly un-British. It is a striving to be not British, but UK-nese, assertively loyal, flag-rallying and stiff with national pride.

Treefarmer

Joined: 29 May 2007

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:42 am Post subject:

Britain has much bigger problems than wether people feel British or not i wish that the people with power tried to make the country something to be proud of rather than telling us that we should be proud of it just cos we were born there thank beep that the british aren't as gullible as americans in that respect

Dome Vans
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:52 am Post subject:

Treefarmer wrote:

Britain has much bigger problems than wether people feel British or not

i wish that the people with power tried to make the country something to be proud of rather than telling us that we should be proud of it just cos we were born there

thank *beep* that the british aren't as gullible as americans in that respect

I second this.

"God save our gracious Queen" WHY?

If England spent a little less time worrying about too many immigrants stealing our jobs then we might be able to start start in rebuilding some kind of society. At the moment the decisions being made from the top are having a detrimental effect on the work that people put in lower down the ladder.

We have a shit, sneaky, lying government, who haven't got the balls to bring in any kind of PR voting. Who wants first past the post? There just isn't the checks and balances that other countries have. We have one 'president' who now doesn't even listen to his fellow party members and feels it's his divine right to ride roughshod over the people in his personal crusade to hit these dreamy 'targets' and these wonderful league tables that do nothing but widen the gap between the privileged, rich people and poverty stricken working class.

I'm not including this tirade as any part of 'we used to be great' idea. We're not. I don't there are many countries that are. It's a facade that'll get found out sooner or later.

Quote:

thank *beep* that the british aren't as gullible as americans in that respect

Amen to that!

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:24 am Post subject:

Quote:

Quote:
thank *beep* that the british aren't as gullible as americans in that respect

Amen to that!

I guess I agree as well. America should have just allowed them to take up the German language,........and not have interfered.

dmbfan

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:26 am Post subject:

Quote:

Forcing the pace, bossing people and lecturing them about Britishness is the sort of slightly unpleasant thing which rightwingers in both major parties believe will win them support. I think of it as distinctly un-British. It is a striving to be not British, but UK-nese, assertively loyal, flag-rallying and stiff with national pride.

So, I guess the phrase "Make the world England" really does not apply anymore?

Well, if you really don't believe in your country....or anything at all.......then I guess you have nothing.

dmbfan

Dome Vans
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:48 am Post subject:

dmbfan wrote:

Quote:

Quote:
thank *beep* that the british aren't as gullible as americans in that respect

Amen to that!

I guess I agree as well. America should have just allowed them to take up the German language,........and not have interfered.

dmbfan

I think a christmas card to Russia with thanks is more correct here.

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:53 am Post subject:

Quote:

I think a christmas card to Russia with thanks is more correct here

Either way, it would have been less American lives paying the ultimate price for people like you.

So, I suggest that since you feel so passionately about it, go tell some American soldiers what you post here. Go tell them that they are fools for protecting other people.

But, I guees that would take balls, wouldn't it? You know, actually standing for something..............pitty, I always though the British were proud to be.....British.

Not a crime man....not a crime.

dmbfan

Treefarmer

Joined: 29 May 2007

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:59 am Post subject:

some american soldiers protecting people, yesterday

Pluto

Joined: 19 Dec 2006

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:31 am Post subject:

Quote:

He has just published a book (discussed on Radio 4's Start the Week), The Home we Build Together: Recreating Society, which is critical of multiculturalism. Where Britain is concerned, he wants everyone to join in, keep their loyalties, but more strongly feel part of this country. Unfortunately he feels that we are insufficiently defined as a nation and ought to do something about it. His response is, ironically, that we should be more like the United States.

I don't know what he means by multiculturism but where I live I am in the minority and I'm white. Hell, it seems everywhere you go signs are always in English and Spanish.

Quote:

I have made the point before that the obsession with the national flag, flying in profusion on private houses a thousand miles from both Mexican and Canadian borders, is weird, a supererogatory mix of bombast and self-doubt. "We are American," says Kansan to Kansan, pointlessly. But this Kansan is also denying the possibility of being an alien, a suspect and dubious foreigner.

I don't have a flag outside my door, nor do people really hang flags outside unless there is a special event like the 4th of July. And this whole idea that I proclaim to be an American everywhere I go is absurd. I thought it would be kind of assumed. It isn't like I get on the El (elevated track) everyday and tell the person next to me, "hey, I'm American, in fact I was born here!"

Quote:

thank *beep* that the british aren't as gullible as americans in that respect

There is, howver, one way in which the British are alike; how they stereotype all Americans. Confused

Treefarmer

Joined: 29 May 2007

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:55 am Post subject:

Pluto wrote:

There is, howver, one way in which the British are alike; how they stereotype all Americans. Confused

I didn't say all americans, but i would say that overall americans are more nationalistic than the british

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject:

Quote:

As for the US, it is a country that proclaims individualism and practices it collectively; power-block corporations do everything possible to homogenise customer and employee.

Examples? None. Just another fool who hasn't studied economics once again showing why economics should be left to the economists.

Pluto wrote:

Quote:
I have made the point before that the obsession with the national flag, flying in profusion on private houses a thousand miles from both Mexican and Canadian borders, is weird, a supererogatory mix of bombast and self-doubt. "We are American," says Kansan to Kansan, pointlessly. But this Kansan is also denying the possibility of being an alien, a suspect and dubious foreigner.

I don't have a flag outside my door, nor do people really hang flags outside unless there is a special event like the 4th of July. And this whole idea that I proclaim to be an American everywhere I go is absurd. I thought it would be kind of assumed. It isn't like I get on the El (elevated track) everyday and tell the person next to me, "hey, I'm American, in fact I was born here!"

Liberals Brits oftimes do a wonderful job of showing that they're not as multi-cultural as Americans.

America and Canada are the two most multi-cultural nations in the world.

Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject:

dmbfan wrote:

Quote:

I think a christmas card to Russia with thanks is more correct here

Ignore Dome Vans... He still hasn't told me whether it is that he can't read or he ignores facts. Based on what he wrote above, I'm guessing it's that he ignores facts.

Dome Vans
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject:

dmbfan wrote:

Quote:

I think a christmas card to Russia with thanks is more correct here

Here we go again. America is like a divorcee dad, you throw money at your darling little kids, while resenting them, and then wonder what they still hate you.

Let's all applaud America for screwing up again. Bravo! We owe you nothing, but you can still believe in your little head we do. It's ok.

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