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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:23 pm Post subject: Gun registry survives Commons vote |
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The Conservatives are vowing to continue their fight against the gun registry after enough New Democrat MPs voted with the Liberals and Bloc Qu�b�cois to scrap a Conservative private member's bill aimed at killing the 15-year-old federal program.
Wednesday's vote was close, with 153 MPs voting in favour of a motion introduced by the House public safety committee to scrap Tory MP Candice Hoeppner's bill, compared with 151 voting against the motion, which would have kept the bill alive.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper said he would not let the result deter him.
"After 15 years, opposition to the long-gun registry is stronger in this country than it has ever been. With the vote tonight, its abolition is closer than it has ever been," Harper said.
"The people of the regions of this country are never going to accept being treated like criminals and we will continue our efforts until this registry is finally abolished."
Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff and Bloc Qu�b�cois Leader Gilles Duceppe had long made it clear that they intended to halt Bill C-391. The Conservatives supported the bill, so the registry's fate lay with the NDP, which allows its MPs to vote as they wish on private member's bills.
Six New Democrats voted with the Conservatives � Nathan Cullen of B.C., Niki Ashton and Jim Maloway of Manitoba, Dennis Bevington from the Northwest Territories and Bruce Hyer and John Rafferty from Northern Ontario.
No Liberals voted with the minority Conservatives.
Wednesday's vote was a marked difference from the vote last fall on the gun registry, when eight Liberal MPs supported Hoeppner's bill, along with 12 New Democrats.
Supporters of the registry � including police officers, doctors, women's groups and victims-rights groups � had been vocal over the past few weeks in urging MPs to save the registry. Opponents, including farmers and hunters, also made passionate arguments. They argued, among other things, that the registry is ineffective and a waste of money.
"Hallelujah, we won," said Elaine Lumley, whose son Aidan was shot to death five years ago after he exited a Montreal bar.
"When [the vote] was all over, I was sitting with another mother who lost her son a week after Aidan died, Susan Jessop, and we hugged each other and we said, 'We did if for our boys.'"
The registry was created in the wake of Canada's worst mass shooting, the 1989 tragedy at the University of Montreal's Ecole polytechnique in which 14 women were shot to death. Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe has been firm in his support of the registry.
Ignatieff said Wednesday he was proud of his MPs for showing unity, while acknowledging the gun registry is an emotional issue.
"I want to bring northern and southern, rural and urban Canada together on this issue. We're willing to improve the long-gun registry to make it acceptable to rural Canadians and it was on that basis that we've maintained unity in the caucus, and I'd like to maintain unity in the country on this issue. And I hope it's now a settled question."
But Hoeppner vowed to fight on and chastised MPs who originally supported scrapping the registry, then changed their minds
I had support from 20 opposition members who said it's a good bill, we believe in scrapping the long-gun registry. They obviously were not being honest with themselves, with me, certainly with their constituents, and today they voted to keep the registry, but we won't give up the fight."
Conservatives have warned opposition MPs that the registry will be a key issue in the next election. They plan to target MPs in rural ridings who changed their votes after initially saying they would support killing the registry.
Layton said voters would not punish his MPs for supporting the registry. He said the electorate has "an appreciation" for his party's approach.
"That is, we want to build bridges and propose solutions, proposals to improve the registry," he said.
The Liberals and NDP have said they ultimately want to propose changes to the registry, such as making a first-time failure to register a firearm a non-criminal ticketing offence and waiving fees for new licences, renewals and upgrades.
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I'm in favor of keeping the registry but I don't think it will be around after the next election. Conservatives don't need a majority to scarp it, only an increase in handful of seats. |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Gun registry survives Commons vote |
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Why do you support it? It seems very illogical to support a program which doesn't improve public safety, has a ridiculous price tag of tens of millions per year and has criminalized otherwise average, honest citizens over paperwork.
I'm not surprised the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc want to keep their confiscation list. Their nanny-state wouldn't be complete without a gun ban. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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If someone wants to get a gun badly enough they will get one. Registry or no registry.
That is why I don't get the people like Elaine Lumley saying "We did it for our boys."
The registry was in place long before her son was shot to death. It didn't stop it nor did it stop Susan Jessop's son from being killed.
Supporting a policy which has been shown to have good effects is one thing. Supporting a policy that was an outright failure is quite another.
Not to mention that it was a policy based on lies. Originally it was supposed to cost 2 million dollars. Now it's 2 billion and counting. As costs soared the ruling Liberals were found to have lied about the price at least twice by providing what they knew was misinformation. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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I'm in favor of it. If you poll Canadians it's about a 60/40 in favor of the registry.
If the conservatives hope to win a majority they should stop this silliness. And get a control of the more 'extreme' mp's left over from the old Reform days. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Gun registry survives Commons vote |
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| Wildbore wrote: |
I'm not surprised the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc want to keep their confiscation list. |
I agree it is a confiscation list. Leftists have an end and will move towards it hump by hump.
Where does the money for the anti-gun propaganda come from? How about the hate crimes/HRC's lobby? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
I'm in favor of it. If you poll Canadians it's about a 60/40 in favor of the registry.
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Could you post this poll? Because several polls I checked out say quite different.
Here's one.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/11/19/ekos-poll.html
38% would have voted to ABOLISH the registry. 31% would have voted to keep it. 31% weren't sure or didn't care. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:08 am Post subject: |
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According to an evaluation by the RCMP, the gun registry has been beneficial. Some examples given:
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Provide support to RCMP Detachment in Alberta after a suspect was stopped with 4 long guns in his vehicle. The suspect was evasive when questioned about the firearms leading investigators to believe that they had been stolen. NWEST conducted CFRO [Canadian Firearms Registration online] checks on the recovered firearms and determined that all 4 were registered to a local resident other than the person that was in possession of them. The registered owner, who was working out of town, was contacted by police and stated that as far as he was aware all of his firearms were safely stored at his residence. Police attended owners� residence and discovered evidence confirming that his residence had been broken into and that all 16 of his long guns had been stolen. Investigational follow up subsequently resulted in the recovery of the remaining 12 long guns from the suspect....
To give you an example of how the registry is used in practice, I will cite an example that happened a few years ago. The wife of one of the local pastors showed up at the mental health centre upset about a letter her husband had received. The letter was rambling and somewhat psychotic one with no obvious threats. However, the man had been known to be mentally unstable and violent towards his family. The letter frightened the people who received it and they wondered whether they were at risk. The first question I asked was whether they knew if he had a gun. Of course, they didn�t so they were advised to contact the RCMP to explain the circumstances and have them find out if he had a gun through the registry. If he was found to have a gun, the police would have grounds to go out and investigate, something I think they would have had difficulty doing in the past without clear threat. If the RCMP went out and found unregistered firearms, they would have grounds to remove them because of the legislation, whereas they probably would not have had grounds to do so in the past. |
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/fire-feu-eval/eval-eng.pdf |
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