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IncognitoHFX

Joined: 06 May 2007 Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:45 am Post subject: You think your classroom is bad? |
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Okay, so this is getting ridiculous.
About a month ago, I decided I really needed to crack down on the poor behaviour in the classroom. I read the forums and see other examples of bad behaviour, and often think that my kids are a dozen times worse.
I've been here for five months, and for the past month and a half I've been applying a new strategy in the classroom that seems to be working rather well for some classes. That strategy is, basically, to micromanage everything. I find if I am very loud and if I make sure I always control what kids are doing--and I keep their attention by having a lot of activities / participation, then my classes generally go better. Generally. Before I'd let way too much slide, now I hardly let anything slide.
Anyway, today was the day from hell. I have this block of classes once a week and as far as I'm concerned, they're 90% uncontrollable.
The first class I have trouble with (Grade 3) is just all over the place. Its hard to get them to focus for more than ten seconds. Every once and awhile I just lose them, and they fall back into talking and acting like little retards. Once they're in this phase it always takes a lot of energy on my end to snap them out of it, such as yelling, pointing, taking names, threatening, et cetera.
The second class I have trouble with is a Grade 2 class, and there are two kids who just... won't shut up. They're very loud and attention-whorish, and they're obviously very popular wherever they go. Another kid in the class, who is a little "off", idolizes them... and they respond to this by saying terribly mean things to the kid / making him run errands for them, et cetera. Today I spent %50 of the class trying to get them to leave the poor kid alone, but two seconds after I'd start teaching again, they'd be right back into it.
The third class I have major trouble with is a Grade 1 class. They aren't vindictive or evil, they're just young. Its impossible to control all six of them, especially in a Social Studies class, for more than thirty seconds. I get hit, punched, and stuff thrown at me regularly in this class. Tonight I completely lost it on them. I was writing something on the chalkboard and two of them snuck up behind me, and started "ddong chim-ing" me repeatedly at the same time. It wasn't child's play either, they were cackling and ramming their pointed fingers into the back of my pants and it actually hurt quite a bit.
I completely lost it, I pointed at the door and screamed "GET OUT!!!" repeatedly for about five minutes. Other classes could hear it, and they started gathering around outside. The kids were in shock, and three minutes in they started saying "sorry" but they refused to leave. I stood there, yelling it over and over again, and eventually I just took their respective book bags and tossed them into the hallway. My secretary came round and asked them kindly to leave, and they did. Eventually. I feel pretty terrible about it, but this class was after all my other bad classes... and at that point I was just all nerves. Plus I'm working a morning kindergarten now, so I had been teaching straight from 9:30am to about 6:00pm when this had happened.
...and, it gets worse. I have one student (Grade 7) who is just... purposely evil. He never listens, and even though he is a one-on-one class he is more demanding than any other class I have combined. He walks around, breaking things, being difficult, playing on a little electronic dictionary, and insulting you as you chase him. I usually confiscate five or six things from him in the course of a class, and he's still awful. I don't even bother doing a textbook with him because we can't even get one minute in to one without him completely being a complete a-hole. I was trying to explain plate tectonics to him tonight (his English is high-level/perfect) and he just kept saying "I hate you", "shut up", "I don't care", then mocking me. I never take this kind of behaviour, but every punishment our hagwon can offer just rolls of his back.
You think this is bad? It gets even worse. There was five minutes left in class (an hour long class), and I left the kid alone for a second while I ran to print off his vocabulary homework. This occasionally happens as in the sixty documents I have to print off in the course of a day, I'm bound to forget one or two.
Anyway, I come back, hand him his vocabulary and that was that. I went on my computer to do some closing stuff, and saw that he deleted my computer account and made a new one with a password. We called him (password was the Korean word for "crazy"), and he told the password to the school director.
Once I got into the computer, I realized I had lost six months worth of vocabulary tests, data, report cards, level up tests, regular tests, hand made (sometimes complicated and hard to make) assignments, and other documents.
I guess what it comes down to... is how the hell do you do it? I'm actually trying very, very, very hard here. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, neither do my friends / coworker. |
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Flash Ipanema

Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:08 am Post subject: |
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You quit. And you tell the school you're quitting because of the kids' behavior and because they're making you do way more work than you agreed to when you took the job. |
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Roch
Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: Re: You think your classroom is bad? |
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IncognitoHFX wrote: |
Okay, so this is getting ridiculous.
About a month ago, I decided I really needed to crack down on the poor behaviour in the classroom. I read the forums and see other examples of bad behaviour, and often think that my kids are a dozen times worse.
I've been here for five months, and for the past month and a half I've been applying a new strategy in the classroom that seems to be working rather well for some classes. That strategy is, basically, to micromanage everything. I find if I am very loud and if I make sure I always control what kids are doing--and I keep their attention by having a lot of activities / participation, then my classes generally go better. Generally. Before I'd let way too much slide, now I hardly let anything slide.
Anyway, today was the day from hell. I have this block of classes once a week and as far as I'm concerned, they're 90% uncontrollable.
The first class I have trouble with (Grade 3) is just all over the place. Its hard to get them to focus for more than ten seconds. Every once and awhile I just lose them, and they fall back into talking and acting like little retards. Once they're in this phase it always takes a lot of energy on my end to snap them out of it, such as yelling, pointing, taking names, threatening, et cetera.
The second class I have trouble with is a Grade 2 class, and there are two kids who just... won't shut up. They're very loud and attention-whorish, and they're obviously very popular wherever they go. Another kid in the class, who is a little "off", idolizes them... and they respond to this by saying terribly mean things to the kid / making him run errands for them, et cetera. Today I spent %50 of the class trying to get them to leave the poor kid alone, but two seconds after I'd start teaching again, they'd be right back into it.
The third class I have major trouble with is a Grade 1 class. They aren't vindictive or evil, they're just young. Its impossible to control all six of them, especially in a Social Studies class, for more than thirty seconds. I get hit, punched, and stuff thrown at me regularly in this class. Tonight I completely lost it on them. I was writing something on the chalkboard and two of them snuck up behind me, and started "ddong chim-ing" me repeatedly at the same time. It wasn't child's play either, they were cackling and ramming their pointed fingers into the back of my pants and it actually hurt quite a bit.
I completely lost it, I pointed at the door and screamed "GET OUT!!!" repeatedly for about five minutes. Other classes could hear it, and they started gathering around outside. The kids were in shock, and three minutes in they started saying "sorry" but they refused to leave. I stood there, yelling it over and over again, and eventually I just took their respective book bags and tossed them into the hallway. My secretary came round and asked them kindly to leave, and they did. Eventually. I feel pretty terrible about it, but this class was after all my other bad classes... and at that point I was just all nerves. Plus I'm working a morning kindergarten now, so I had been teaching straight from 9:30am to about 6:00pm when this had happened.
...and, it gets worse. I have one student (Grade 7) who is just... purposely evil. He never listens, and even though he is a one-on-one class he is more demanding than any other class I have combined. He walks around, breaking things, being difficult, playing on a little electronic dictionary, and insulting you as you chase him. I usually confiscate five or six things from him in the course of a class, and he's still awful. I don't even bother doing a textbook with him because we can't even get one minute in to one without him completely being a complete a-hole. I was trying to explain plate tectonics to him tonight (his English is high-level/perfect) and he just kept saying "I hate you", "shut up", "I don't care", then mocking me. I never take this kind of behaviour, but every punishment our hagwon can offer just rolls of his back.
You think this is bad? It gets even worse. There was five minutes left in class (an hour long class), and I left the kid alone for a second while I ran to print off his vocabulary homework. This occasionally happens as in the sixty documents I have to print off in the course of a day, I'm bound to forget one or two.
Anyway, I come back, hand him his vocabulary and that was that. I went on my computer to do some closing stuff, and saw that he deleted my computer account and made a new one with a password. We called him (password was the Korean word for "crazy"), and he told the password to the school director.
Once I got into the computer, I realized I had lost six months worth of vocabulary tests, data, report cards, level up tests, regular tests, hand made (sometimes complicated and hard to make) assignments, and other documents.
I guess what it comes down to... is how the hell do you do it? I'm actually trying very, very, very hard here. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, neither do my friends / coworker. |
It seems that Steve Shertzer is probably correct about the average Korean boy being uncivilised, etc. |
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sojourner1

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: |
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That's awful. I thought I was having a rough time in the afternoons after my morning kindergarten. I have many afternoon students who are fairly high level, but don't want to go to school, complain constantly, have no values, and act downright terrible. It's a real struggle to be subjected to so many negative reactions and attitudes which requires a thick skin or a personality that allows you apathy. I dunno either what to do with difficult problem students since nothing seems to work with them. I would reckon all my loud talking, yelling, and bossing them around only makes them feel more hateful and unhappy, but I can't tolerate it either when they intentionally do wrong and they know they are being bad and rebellious. I do know a lot is going on outside the classroom to make them be so rotten, sullen, negative, and unhappy with their lives to the point of exhibiting foul behavior most of the time. I dunno what to do to charm them and make them good kids who want to learn.
Your job sounds much harder than mine. I observed that most teachers who find themselves with difficult classes, end up baby sitting and just ride the time out though they are very quiet and don't talk much during breaks. Teaching is one lonely profession that involves no teamwork as you're on your own all day, while a whole room of foreign teachers on break are all into their computer. This makes it tough as you often want to know what they know about teaching and classroom management and you also would like to interact more with adults.
Those of us who do really try to do a good job in gaining positive results and job satisfaction, end up getting bent out of shape, because some students and classes do act terrible. |
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kimchi_pizza
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: Re: You think your classroom is bad? |
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IncognitoHFX wrote: |
I guess what it comes down to... is how the hell do you do it? I'm actually trying very, very, very hard here. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, neither do my friends / coworker. |
Maybe that's the problem...check out this guy's thread: http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=104472, take a deep breath and you may come up with some ideas to make the class a little more enjoyable. Teasing students is a good way to get them to relax and yourself as well. You obviously want to be a good and serious teacher, but you don't want to take yourself too seriously. Also, you gotta try to "read" your students.
My students have really improved so far this semester, but this seemed to be a difficult week as everyone was tired and bored maybe 'cause of the weather as even I was kinda outta sorts this week. So I cut classes short today and they cheered, and told'em, "No, you should be sad! Everyone repeat after me, 'Awwwww....'." I said it again, they put on a sad face and "Awww..."ed, laughed and told them to get out an have a good weekend.
I decided today that we all need a break from lessons and instead I'll do a role playing game next week where they have to use English, learning English is going to be shelved for a short time. I think it'll work...recharge everyone's batteries specially since we had midterm exams not too long ago. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: |
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You've had a hard time at this school the whole time. This is at least the third thread you've started about these kids at this school, right?
Either finish your contract or get out.
Suck it up at this point.
And possibly consider a different age group. |
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sojourner1

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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This also has to be a tough time since there are no holidays or anything until Christmas. While I look forward to Christmas in 7 weeks, the kids don't have any concept of looking forward this far.
I noticed that things get more stressful during long periods without a holiday and they know it is one of these long time periods without one single holiday. There really are few holidays and no long weekends other than Chuseok and lunar new year. 2 is not enough for us adults and it sure is tough for the kids who do have a clue that in western countries, schools take many 3 and 4 day weekends as well as long breaks between semesters. |
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Col.Brandon

Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:23 am Post subject: |
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The first time that little b@stard disrespected me he'd be out on his ear. End of story. Don't take any crap. Ever. |
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midgic
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: |
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My two cents:
Focus on the good student(s) in your class who actually want to learn. Give them lots of attention and praise. Give them lots of treats and stickers (i.e. bribery).
Ignore the miscreants. Also, separate them from the good kids by putting them at the back or far away from you. Seat the good kids near you. Focus on them.
Or, another seating method is to have two chairs right at the front where you can keep close tabs on the two worst offenders.
Discipline naughty students by putting them in chairs in the corner. If they refuse to sit in the naughty chairs, kick them out. If they refuse to leave, get the secretary to come and haul them out of class.
Make sure the secretary knows beforehand that they are going to be part of your discipline plan. You tell the secretary that you expect them to haul kids out of class when you deem it necessary.
No need to raise your voice too much. Don't bother with threats. Crack down immediately on every infraction that you deem to be improper classroom behaviour. Be consistent. Send students to the naughty chair(s) early and often. Kick out every student if you have to.
Have the secretary call the parents of the worst offenders.
As for that incredibly disrespectful middle school kid....you shouldn't have to put up with crap like that. He should have been kicked out of the hagwon by now. Absolutely refuse to waste your time with that kid. |
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midgic
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Also, listen to Col. Brandon above. |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hello, Incognito!
Here is another thread on the subject:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=102220&highlight=
I appear on that thread, both offering and requesting advice.
Notice that this OP also has a joining date on 2007.
How is your kindergarten class?
I can give you a long list of kindergarten threads. |
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Jizzo T. Clown

Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Location: at my wit's end
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:26 am Post subject: Re: You think your classroom is bad? |
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IncognitoHFX wrote: |
Once I got into the computer, I realized I had lost six months worth of vocabulary tests, data, report cards, level up tests, regular tests, hand made (sometimes complicated and hard to make) assignments, and other documents.
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There's a lesson here: Buy flash drive and back up everything. I keep my work documents on my laptop at school, my home computer, and my flash drive. And if it's really important stuff, I email it to myself as well. Live and learn.
Then again, if you had these kids' respect they would know that teacher's computer is strictly off-limits. Remember that (despite what your boss may tell you) it is your responsibility to be their teacher first, their "friend from Canada" / dancing monkey second. Don't be afraid of kids hating you if you act too strict.
Tell your boss you refuse to teach the grade 7 student and be prepared to give him the ultimatum or get fired. I agree with Atavistic's (rather harsh) advice. I'd start looking at other jobs if I were you. |
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Oreovictim
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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I feel your pain. I thought that the behavior level at my school was standard, but I keep having other foreigners say, "Wow, that doesn't happen at my school." One of the worst things was when a kid pointed a BB gun in my face when I walked into class. I kicked him out and explained the situation to my director. My boss later said, "Oh, I told him (the demon kid) that he shouldn't bring guns to class." That was it.
This picture is from a different toy gun incident. Some kid pointed a gun in my coworker's face.
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: |
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I teach uni students and it can almost as bad sometimes, although in a more subtle way. Not bringing books, refusing to come sit up closer to the front, sauntering in 30 or 40 minutes late, playing on cell-phones, etc, etc.
Next semester, I have a new plan. No book, no class. I've already resorted to locking the door after about 20 minutes to prevent the extreme late-comers from interrupting my class anymore. My new plan is to give them stamps in the front of their book for good behavior/participating in class. Then, about 20% of their grade will be based on how many stamps they have. Seriously, just like kindergarten. Disturbing, but true.
Anyway, what I'm saying is this: if they act like 6 year olds, treat them like 6 year olds. Make everything into a juvenile competition and give them 10 won candies/grades for good behavior. |
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Young FRANKenstein

Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: |
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jlb wrote: |
Next semester, I have a new plan. (1) No book, no class. (2) I've already resorted to locking the door after about 20 minutes to prevent the extreme late-comers from interrupting my class anymore. (3) My new plan is to give them stamps in the front of their book for good behavior/participating in class. Then, about 20% of their grade will be based on how many stamps they have. |
At my last uni, where I had total control of my class and the syllabus and grading scheme, I did all that above.
1- I told them on the first day, "no textbook, go home". Kicked out about 10 students from each class before they realized I wasn't kidding. By the fourth class, everyone knew what was coming if I asked "Where's your textbook?" The students would get in on the act and tell him to leave ("Teacher want you go home. No book. Go home!"). It was like kindergarten: "Everyone hold up their textbook" (check check check) "Everyone hold up their notebooks and pens" (check check check). Bunch of damned babies.
2- I did that, too, and put a sign on the outside of the door that read "You have been marked absent. Go home.". That also went for those who fell asleep in my class or were too sick to participate. Go home. If they didn't move, I would pull up a chair, sit, and read my book until they did.
3- I didn't give them stamps, but I did put ticks on the daily attendance by their names if they spoke in class: 1 tick for doing the barest minimum of speaking, 2 if they spoke more than was required...ticks added up to their participation grade, and said ticks could be deducted for disturbing the class.
At my current uni, I implemented a notebook check, too, to force them to take notes in class instead of sitting there eating their boogers.
Last edited by Young FRANKenstein on Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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