Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mistermasan]

what makes korea a "race"? please forgive if this seems ignorant. just an american mutt here. how is the korean/han race any different from the chinese/han race?

does a DNA printout reveal that much of a difference between east asians?

i hear "race" thrown around and it isn't really clear to me. where in the linnean classification system does race come in? between genera and species?

or is it just a vestige of pre-scientific BS that sticks around (like organized religion) because it still sells in some parts?

[SPINOZA]

"any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/race

[mistermasan]

so, me (a white guy), jessie jackson and yao ming are all in the same race? we live(d) in the US, speak english, wear the same clothes, watch TV and eat the same foods. sweet.

[SPINOZA]

[Czarjorge]

If I understand the history, aren't Koreans genetically distinct from Mainland Chinese people? Or at least were at one point? Isn't the "Han" bit about culture more than genome?

[jaganath69]

Race is more of a social construction than a concrete fact of biology.

[jajdude]

Korean race? You mean like this?

[Underwaterbob]

great now I can't stop laughing in the overcrowded, very quiet staff room

[mistermasan]

spinoza,
(great name)

i guess my (as of yet uncertain) assertation is that genetic race is a crock o beans.

additionally, i venture that if we blindly took the DNA of 100 randomly selected koreans and that of an equal number of chinese, japanese and mongolians and tried to sort them by "race" the result would be that we'd have 400 samples in the same race category.

so...maybe, scientifically the concept of race is bunk but it still holds sway in political circles in no small part because the overwhelming part of politics is also bunk.

[SPINOZA]

Scientific studies have shown that there are greater differences within 'races' than there are between them, which is obviously problematic for proponents of biological race. However, the analogy I always use is this: there's no such thing as the West. Unlike the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, there is no objective dividing line between East and West - yet, people all the time presuppose and sometimes explicitly refer to a Western Hemisphere. So, sometimes we use words which don't really refer to an objective entity or state of affairs but it nevertheless suits us to pretend it exists. Another example: countries. Countries, like Jaganath69 said of races, are artificial constructions. I argue 'race' is a term than can be defensibly used as follows:

a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans

Blonde hair and blue eyes common in Germany and Scandinavia - not so common in Spain and Portugal.

a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race

We can get rid of race, but we cannot get rid of genetic heredity. People do indeed inherit physical features.


any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

People will be reluctant to use this with regard to immigration-based former colonies, however, because of the more heterogeneous genepools observable there, but no matter. Interestingly though, here, race essentially = 'people' ('the Swedish people'). There's no getting rid of 'people' so the controversial entity in 'the Swedish race' is 'Swedish'. The entity called into question in 'the Korean race' (= 'the Korean people') is 'Korean'. So, if we were to get rid of 'race' and replace it with something PC like 'people' the controversial entity we called into question remains (Koreanness). The exercise has no logical benefit at all.

One final excellent reason to keep the concept of 'race' alive: 'racist'. I have actually heard people with degrees argue the following: I'm not racist because there's no such thing as 'race'. Whether races exist or not, someone who believes 'X are stupid' is a racist.

[mistermasan]

"X are stupid" = racist only if X pertains to race. saying 'all americans are stupid" isn't racist but saying "all hawaiians are stupid " is racist when there isn't a hawaiian race? the assertation that we should keep the genetic concept of race alive so as to be able to shout down racists is...interesting.

which countries still use the "race" factor as a social unifier? korea, china and...? does germany still espouse "race" mastery? what was that field called? eugenics. hasn't it pretty much been discredited? then why does it get credit?

once we get past labels we have to deal what is behind the labels. maybe sometimes it is easier to deal in labels.

[SPINOZA]