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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: So what's going on with the West Bank? |
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Gaza's on fire.
�The era of justice and Islamic rule have arrived.�
Hamas has gained military control of Gaza city expelling Fatah.
So are there 2 Palestine's now?
What's going on.
The newscasts haven't been very informative.
cbc
Last edited by cbclark4 on Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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My 2 Cent
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Israel are tonight kindly considering transporting fatah troops from the occupied west bank across the desert so Fatah fighters can put down their brothers in Gaza. It seems Israel and the West now want to throw their support towards the 'moderates' - although they did little or nothing to help or support Abu Mazen before the (democratic) rise of Hamas a few years ago.
Gaza has been strangulated since the much lauded Israeli evacuation by bombs, rockets, invasions, international sanctions, and a humanitarian disaster (sanitation, malnutrition and even starvation). This tiny strip of land's unique selling point is that it is regarded as the closest thing to 'hell on earth'. A civil war is the last thing Gaza needs, but should we be surprised that all out internecine conflict is the result of these policies?
Yes, I know for the most part, some poor unfortunate Israelis have had their skylights smashed by some aimless homemade rockets with limited range around Israel's border towns, but the human tragedy which has been unfolding in Gaza is the real issue here.
It seems 40 years of occupation is finally breaking and destroying the Palestinian nation. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, it really is crazy.
As I mentioned in another post. Both Israel (through Egypt) and America (by way of Israel) have armed Fatah recently. Israel allowing trucks through, loaded with high tech killing devices. One of those large shipments was ambushed last March and fell into the hands of Hamas. More killing, more guns ordered.
Fact is, Israel has been arming Fatah, an organization mostly or totally controlled by Force 17 which for years had exclusive rights to terror on Israel and the horrific suicide bombings of the intifada. Isn't it ironic, don't ya think?
Just crazy. One, Israel must be condemned for allowing and wishing and pursuing a "divide and conquer" strategy. From day one, after Hamas was democratically elected, they pursued this end through assassinations, bombings, missle attacks and throwing arms into the broil. Just as we should condemn the thugs of both Hamas and Fatah, also Israel and its leadership -- who have all valued human life so little and only pursued power not "the greater good".
DD |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Just crazy. One, Israel must be condemned for allowing and wishing and pursuing a "divide and conquer" strategy. From day one, after Hamas was democratically elected, they pursued this end through assassinations, bombings, missle attacks and throwing arms into the broil |
Yes I suppose they should have just supported Hamas or wished for their well being..... |
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YoshaMazov
Joined: 10 May 2007
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| It would be quite counter-productive to aid an organization that solely exists to destroy you, no? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| It would be quite counter-productive to aid an organization that solely exists to destroy you, no? |
Seemingly so, if you can only see as far as your nose. If you are more far sighted, it really isn't difficult to see the benefits of rapproachment, to use an anglocized term......
We called it detente with the Russians and I don't see why Israel really can't see this "avenue"....
But I DO think it rather counterproductive to provide guns and arms of all sorts to those who for years have been trying to blow you up, bus by bus....this is not rapproachment but rather just adding fuel to the fire and indeed, CRAZY.
DD |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Israel are tonight kindly considering transporting fatah troops from the occupied west bank across the desert so Fatah fighters can put down their brothers in Gaza. It seems Israel and the West now want to throw their support towards the 'moderates' - although they did little or nothing to help or support Abu Mazen before the (democratic) rise of Hamas a few years ago.
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Where is your proof?
Oh by the way, this is a collosul mistake for hamas. Man, talk about giving your enemy a prime advantange. They attack Israel and Israel bombs the crap out them and says well they aren't our negotiating partners.
2: Israel lets the fundamentalists control gaza and takes control of the west bank and says we are protecting ourselves from the fundamentalists.
3: Fatah goes hard and wipes out Hamas in the west bank and does as a poster said and move troops into gaza and wipes out hamas and israel says "wasn't us"
The palestinians have seemed like their own worst enemy for a number of years and if you can't see that, then you need to learn to be neutral in your views. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: |
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The West Bank is securely in the hands of the PLO. Hamas doesn't stand a chance in the West Bank, and they know it. Gaza historically has been the religious part of Palestine while the West Bank has had more socialists, secular, moderates. Gaza has its fair share but not like the West Bank. The PLO has far more sway there, obviously, than in the Gaza Strip.
Bush kept on stressing elections and American policy kind of put the Palestinians in the position they are in right now. It isn't simply the idiocy of Hamas or the PLO. Bush kept talking about democracy in a naive way not realizing that many years of certain policies were fertile breeding ground for the popularity of Hamas including Fatah's corruption, the continued occupation, serious oppression etc....
Abbas is hoping to get more troops from Jordan who are loyal to the PLO to fortify the West Bank. He will want as many troops as possible.
He will also want aid restored to the West Bank to raise the standard of living of people in the West Bank and shore up the PLO's popularity, and it would not bode well for Hamas if the PLO gets money, and they don't.
Gaza will get nothing. I feel sorry for the Gazans, but they have largely put Hamas in power. It was not a good thing in my opinion. I just am not surprised. Hamas attempted a coup d'etat essentially... |
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charlieDD
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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My favorite quote coming out of this: An old man in Gaza saying that the people support whoever can give them their bag of flour today. If Fatah does it today, then the people support Fatah. If Hamas does it tomorrow, then the people are with Hamas. Then he says " I'm with God, . . and the bag of flour."
On a more serious note: This might be a good development in the end. The Hamas have drawn a clear line that should allow western and Arab monetary and materials support to flow to the side they want to succeed while keeping it away from the side they don't. Then it's a spending war between the west on one side and the Iranians / Syrians and radical elements on the other. Joe Palestinian on both sides should win. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamas attempted a coup d'etat essentially... |
I don't agree with the "take up arms approach" . But I wouldn't classify this as a coup d'etat. Hamas had a legitimately elected govt thrown on its ass, as the prime minister was shown the door. A prime minister that offered carrots and the suggestion of middle ground. now that is all gone, temporarily. We should take this into account when analyzing the situation.
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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My 2 Cent"]
| Quote: |
| Israel are tonight kindly considering transporting fatah troops from the occupied west bank across the desert so Fatah fighters can put down their brothers in Gaza. It seems Israel and the West now want to throw their support towards the 'moderates' - although they did little or nothing to help or support Abu Mazen before the (democratic) rise of Hamas a few years ago. |
You are actually correct on this.
Arafat was never really interested in peace with Israel but Abu Mazen was and Israel and the US missed a great chance to strengthen him and bring about a real peace.
It is a real shame |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
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| Hamas attempted a coup d'etat essentially... |
I don't agree with the "take up arms approach" . But I wouldn't classify this as a coup d'etat. Hamas had a legitimately elected govt thrown on its ass, as the prime minister was shown the door. A prime minister that offered carrots and the suggestion of middle ground. now that is all gone, temporarily. We should take this into account when analyzing the situation.
DD |
I don't think coup d'etat is is operative.
I think secession would be more appropriate.
Is there term such as coup d'secess?
Or it could essentially be a double coup where Hamas has establish a provincial governemt in Gaza while Fatah retain governance in the WB. I doubt Jordan will allow Hamas to infiltrate the WB.
It is yet to be seen if Egypt will allow Hamas to stand in Gaza. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, has appointed Salam Fayyad, an independent parliamentarian, as prime minister of an emergency government.
After the announcement on Friday, Khaled Meshaal, the Hamas leader, called for dialogue with Abbas and Fatah after Hamas's virtual takeover of the Gaza Strip.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9108AB68-0D1B-4BC1-96F6-5F8B289E87A9.htm |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
From day one, after Hamas was democratically elected
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Yup. And now the noble palestinians are going to get the government they both want and deserve.
This reminds me of Mencken: �Democracy is the theory that the people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.� |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Hamas attempted a coup d'etat essentially... |
I don't agree with the "take up arms approach" . But I wouldn't classify this as a coup d'etat. Hamas had a legitimately elected govt thrown on its ass, as the prime minister was shown the door. A prime minister that offered carrots and the suggestion of middle ground. now that is all gone, temporarily. We should take this into account when analyzing the situation.
DD |
Well, I consider it a coup d'etat since the president is still the ultimate authority over the PM in the Palestinian Constitution. Yes, Fatah is not the government, but they are the party of the president. In a sense, Hamas attacked the presidency. I guess it is more of a secession from the state in a way. Whatever it was, it was illegitimate and aid should not go to Gaza and it should start pouring into the West Bank. The PM of Hamas may be moderate in some ways, but his party expelled Fatah out of Gaza. Yes, the PM offered middle ground but his party on the ground threatened a civil war if elections were to be held. This should be settled by elections. I can understand hungry Gazans will support Hamas for now, but when they see the people in the West Bank getting money they won't be happy. Hamas has to reconsider its moves... |
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