Korean Job Discussion Forums

[PRagic]

Since a lot of the discussions pertaining to university employment conditions vis-a-vis employment status get sidetracked over who actually has or can/should have what rank or position, this thread has been established for those with Ph.D.s working at universities as:

1) Visiting Assistant/Associate/Full Full-time Professor
2) Assistant/Associate/Full Full-time Professor
3) Visiting Full-time Lecturer
4) Full-time Lecturer

This can be a place to network and trade information about employment conditions. Possible topics include, but definitely aren't limited to:

1) Salary
2) Contact hours
3) Housing/Allowace
4) Departmental responsibilities
5) Research and publishing responsibilities
6) Potential position openings outside of ESL (for those interested)

The purpose of the thread is NOT to get into a bickering match over the issue of people with MAs holding similar positions, or the relative teaching ability of someone with such-and-such degree vs someone with such-and-such amount of experience. Rather, as the difference in the degree alters long-term employment considerations and conditions, I thought it might be a good idea to form a thread for people with similar backgrounds and concerns. Cheers, and off we go.

[chriswylson]

Pragic, I think by now everyone on this board is aware that you have a PhD. No one will like you more or even respect you more because of it, so please go get a life and define yourself as something more interesting than 'PhD holder'. Good luck solving that inferiority complex of yours, (although I haven't seen any inprovement in the past 3 months.)

[Young FRANKenstein]

Japan is way better for people with a Ph.D Were I to ever go for mine, I wouldn't even consider Korea for a job.

[Tiger Beer]

[PRagic]

Chriswylson,

In order:

1) Re-read the original post
2) Wipe the chip off of your shoulder
3) Drive on

Where in lies the problem? Post if you will, but keep it to the point.

Thanks for seeing the post for what it is, Tiger. There are a growing number of Ph.D. visiting and tenure track professors in Korea, and I agree that the thread could be useful.

[Homer]

PR,

Great post.

Interesting to see this discussion develop too.

Japan is indeed somewhat ahead for PhD positions in their universities. Then again, they do have more extended budgets.

Korea lags behind for a variety of reasons.

I would not rule it out for a PhD however depending on his/her field of studies. Also, Korean Universties offer a lot of funding for Korea-related research. In fact, they offer more burseries than they have applicants.....

For a young researcher this is a real boon.

[TECO]

[PRagic]

Thanks TECO and Homer. Interesting stuff.

I think the Japan comparisons would be interesting, too. I know that for my field, my salary in Korea is on par with what I'd be making in the U.S. The difference, and I wonder if others share this experience, is the amount of 'extra work' that goes into the position. The non-contracted little stuff, which I figured I'd get stuck with, actually, is the stuff that keeps a lot of Ph.D.s from taking jobs or staying if they do. To a large degree it is cultural.

And this does drive people away. I've know visiting profs at three universities in two different fields. Both had options to stay, and both wanted out after their first (and mandatory) contractual year.

So I'd be curious to know what positions in Japan entail, what they pay, and what their semester/vacation breakdown looks like.

Korean universities are on a drive to improve, and this can yeild results. I just hope they get over the 'why do you want to work here?' syndrome. There is a lot of research money and opportunity here, as Homer pointed out, and those are two of the reaons I'm here.

[faster]

I'm not a Ph.D, but I spent some time with a visiting Ph.D at the new UIC (the Underwood International College...Yonsei's new thing) just before he was slated to go back to a UC for the fall semester. He was teaching an interesting class, but was pretty disappointed in his students' motivation level. More importantly, he was indignant about the university's grading quotas or mandates. He didn't go into detail, but he said the other visiting profs (the UIC at Yonsei brought a lot of them over for the summer) felt the same. He was actually pretty enraged (for a nerdy humanities Ph.D type).

Was his experience normal?

[lastat06513]

From what I heard, PhD courses outside of medicine will be almost similar in structure to the conventional MA/MS course in the near future, meaning anyone with the determination (and the money) would be able to get a PhD.

Not to mention people like me, veterans.
In places like Connecticut and Texas (the only 2 places I know of so far), a veteran can earn a PhD tuition-free and they don't have to pay a fee for the desertation as some schools charge.

So what makes having a PhD so special?

[PRagic]

Faster,

Yes, the 'strongly suggested' or imposed grading curves are a major dissapointment to many teaching core courses. Where I work is no exception. The schools take on it is that introducing core courses taught in English (whether by foreign or Korean professors) is relatively new. Korean students are paranoid about their GPAs, and, as the reasoning goes, might therefore avoid courses taught in English if they perceive a possibility of getting a bad grade. Where we're from, you take the class and let the chips fall where they may. Here, however, they seem to be trying to hold the students' hands. To cushy in my opionion, but this might change in the future. It is one of the downsides to teaching outside of a country where English is the first or second language.

lastat06513,

In most Ph.D. programs, doctoral students take some core courses alongside MA students, true. No secret there. Most professors in Ph.D. programs, however, hold the doctoral students to a higher accountability, and these students have added pressures on them related to each course.
Also, there are several doctoral-level seminars that one must take in order to graduate, and these go a lot deaper than the traditional core classes.

As for funding, most doctoral student receive full or partial funding, especially if they did their homework and applied to well-funded departments with strengths in their particular area of interest.

The breaker is still the dissertation. Most would agree that the coursework, aside possibly from the statistics (depending on one's dicipline) won't really break anyone motivated enough to get through it. Getting through the dissertation stage is the challenge, from discovering a plausible, original topic, to the lit review, to the proposal, and then to the actual research and writing...it's a long haul. The reason that even the core coures are different for a doctoral student is that they have to be thinking ahead to their dissertation; every course taken every semester should be tied in to their future research. If you don't do that, you'll be in tough shape when it comes to the dissertation stage. This is one of the reasons that applicants are rejected if they don't have a grip on what they want to research for their dissertation.

And then, saying you do indeed knock out the degree, you're just getting started. This knocks the wind out of many a sail. To apply for most positions, you need at least one publication in a rated international journal; the more the better, and competition is stiff. If you get a position, then you have your publishing responsibilities. Sure, with the drive, pretty much anyone could feasibly knock out their Ph.D. No biggie, really. It's what comes after that can be intimidating, especially if you want to make a career out of it.

We're not here to argue the plausibility of completing a Ph.D., or the value of having one, though. We're interested in the positions out there and what they entail. Still, interesting post. Thanks.

[timhorton]

This is an interesting and needed thread. I would like to see postings from Ph.D. and Ed.D. professors that address the following:

[spliff]

I say, right snotty the op's post, what? Otherwise, as I see it yet to be mentioned, Japan is a far more fertile environ for the budding Ph.d holder.

[lastat06513]

Are you looking for a job at a uni in Korea with a PhD?
You don't necessarily need to be published to be considered for a job at a Korean uni. There was a time not so long ago that a 22-year old guy I knew worked at KyungHee University without having any degree.

If so, there are very few positions that offer tenure track, as most of them are evaluation based and the longer you stay at one doesn't guarantee any kind of job stability what so ever.

It comes to the point that a person can work for a few hakwons for the first few years then they move on to work at a public school before moving into a university position but then something might go wrong and the person might have to start at the bottom again at the hakwon level...it is that simple.....foreigners in Korea, even at the university or college level of instruction, are ONLY seen as guest workers, only that they are seen as more temporary and more transient than a Bangleshi working at a garment factory in Gyonggi-Do....

No matter how qualified a person might be, there is absolutely no job security in Korea except for the fact that you are qualified to work, that's what it amounts to.

[PRagic]

Spliff,

Sotty? Not meant to be. Just meant to be direct. My bad if it came across otherwise.

timhorton,

In a nutshell, the Ph.D. opens up different career opportunities, and will even more so in the future here in Korea. In most cases, the additional degree with impact teaching loads, access to funding, and other external opporunities related to the position. In the short term, having a Ph.D., depending on where you work (in Korea) and your dicipline, might not get you much more than an MA holder aside from a slight salary increase. However, in the long term, the trend, and this has already begun, will be for doctoral salaries to increase, and MA holder salaries to level off. As has been the case recently in Korea, postions for even the most qualified MA holders have topped off in terms of salary and benefits. Most people I know in the field just hope that they can continue to make what they make now and hold their positions for more than 3 years. Most Ph.D.s that I know here are expecting and receiving salary increases, and additional increases along with promotion in rank.

There are Ph.D.s teaching in Korea in positions where an MA qualifies people to teach, but to the best of my knowledge, these are almost exclusively ESL-related jobs. That's cool, but this thread is more open to others with positions outside of TESL per say, such as Linguistics, Literature, International Studies...anything. In these cases, MA holders are not qualified for the positions, although I know of at least a few cases where MA holders are teaching in teaching training in grad programs here. Those positions, however, are by no means 'safe' over the long-term.

Most doctoral students are losing potential income; the degree itself is usually funded, and most students also receive a small stipend to cover (or help to cover) living expenses. 'Lost' time is a factor to consider. It really just boils down to personal preference and long-term professional goals. I agree with you. If you don't think you need one, and you're not interested in getting one, why bother.