|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:03 am Post subject: In the Hands of the Military |
 |
|
| Quote: |
By Chris Hedges
The last, best hope for averting a war with Iran lies with the United States military. The Democratic Congress, cowed by the Israel lobby and terrified of appearing weak on defense before the presidential elections, will do nothing to halt an attack. The media, especially the electronic press, is working overtime to whip up fear of a nuclear Iran and tar Tehran with abetting attacks against American troops in Iraq. The American public is complacent, unsure of what to believe, knocked off balance by fear and passive. We will be saved or doomed by our generals.
The last wall of defense that prevents the Bush administration from targeting Iran, an attack that could ignite a regional conflagration and usher in apocalyptic scenarios in the Middle East, runs through the offices of Secretary of Defense Robert Gates; Adm. William Fallon , the head of the Central Command (CENTCOM); and Gen. George Casey, the Army�s new chief of staff. These three figures in the defense establishment have told George W. Bush and the Congress how depleted the U.S. military has become, that it cannot manage another conflict, and that a war with Iran would make the war with Iraq look like an act of prudence and common sense.
The reliance on the military command, however, to be the voice of reason in the debate about a new war is not a healthy sign for our deteriorating democracy. Compliant generals can always be found to carry out the Dr. Strangelove designs of a mad White House. Those who resist implementing decisions can easily be removed. The protective cover provided by these figures in the defense establishment could vanish.
The United States is able to launch a massive and devastating air attack on Iran�s military installations. It can obliterate the Iranian air force. It can cripple if not dismantle effective communications and military command and control. It can destroy some of Iran�s underground nuclear facilities. But our intelligence inside Iran, as was true in Iraq, is uneven. We do not know where all of Iran�s nuclear facilities are. And it is probable that an Iranian response against American targets, such as the Green Zone in Iraq, as well as Iranian-sponsored terrorist attacks on American soil, would follow. Shiites in the region would interpret an attack as a war on the Shiite community and would unleash unrest, terrorism and violence against us and our allies from Lebanon to Pakistan.
The battle is between the Cheney camp, which would like to carry out strikes on Iran before Bush leaves office, and Gates and his senior generals. Cheney, who has always been able to push aside the feckless Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, is having a tougher time with the military. Fallon, for example, was successful in his attempt to block efforts by Cheney to move a third aircraft carrier into the Persian Gulf earlier this year and bluntly said that �there would be no war against Iran� as long as he was chief of CENTCOM.
Gen. Casey informed Congress this fall that the Army was �out of balance� and added: �The demand for our forces exceeds the sustainable supply. We are consumed with meeting the demands of the current fight, and are unable to provide ready forces as rapidly as necessary for other potential contingencies.�
This White House has a habit of dismissing recalcitrant generals. Gen. Eric Shinseki, when he was chief of staff of the Army, ended his career when he told the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee on the eve of the war in Iraq that �something in the order of several hundred thousand soldiers� would probably be required for postwar Iraq. Gen. Peter Pace also ran afoul of the White House and was not nominated for a second term as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he publicly defied Donald Rumsfeld. At a press conference in November 2005 he stood next to Rumsfeld as the secretary of defense asserted that �the United States does not have a responsibility� to prevent torture by Iraqi officials. Pace pointedly disagreed with Rumsfeld, saying, �It is the absolute responsibility of every U.S. service member, if they see inhumane treatment being conducted, to intervene, to stop it.� Pace also openly dismissed White House claims that Iran was supplying weapons and explosively formed penetrators to Iraqi insurgents. He too was shown the door.
The White House, isolated and reviled at home and abroad, believes it is on a higher mission to save the world from itself. The instability in the Middle East could undermine Gates and his generals. A limited Israeli strike on suspected Iranian nuclear production facilities, currently under discussion in Jerusalem, could trigger retaliatory strikes by Iran on Israel and U.S. targets in Iraq and the Persian Gulf. The clamor for revenge, fueled by a rapacious right-wing media, coupled with our feelings of collective humiliation, could sweep aside all reasoned objections to war with Iran. It happened after the attacks of 2001. It can happen again.
There is a petition circulating that was put together by Marcy Winograd from the Progressive Democrats. The petition is addressed to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and all U.S. military personnel. It urges them to defy orders to attack Iran. It points out that a pre-emptive war with Iran is a war crime under international law. It reminds military personnel of the statute in the Army Field Manual 27-10, Section 609, and Uniform Code of Military Justice, Article 92, that states: �A general order or regulation is lawful unless it is contrary to the Constitution, the law of the United States. ...�
The petition notes that any provision of an international treaty ratified by the United States becomes the law of the United States. The United States is a party and signatory to the United Nations Charter, of which Article II, Section 4, states, �All members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state. ...�
Iran has not attacked the United States. The U.S., as a party and signatory to the U.N. charter, would be in clear violation of international law and the laws enshrined in the Constitution if it went to war with Iran. If the citizens and their representatives in Congress refuse to resist and uphold the rule of law, perhaps the military can be prodded to halt our slide into despotism. It is not the best option, but it may be the only one left.
We live now at the mercy of events. A provocation by Iran, aided by a bellicose White House, could plunge us into another war. It could unleash the primitive chant for violence and revenge that rises up from a population that feels vulnerable, uncertain and afraid. There are forces in our society ready and willing to fan the blood lust for a wider circle of war and mayhem. The Iranians, like us, are cursed by their leadership. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is as primitive, inept and paranoid as George Bush. They are the perfect dance partners for a waltz into Armageddon. |
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20071112_at_the_mercy_of_our_military/
It is up to the generals to stop a war because the media has scared and radicalized the population to such an extent that they accept permanent war as the only normal situation available. This is suicide. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Iran will be handled by France. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| "Handled", how? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The army should do as it is told, short of things like the holocaust.
Iran needs to be taught a lesson that can be done by a massive airstrike on its airforsce and possible nuclear facilities.
Just enough to keep them from developing the bomb over the next 25 years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| contrarian wrote: |
The army should do as it is told, short of things like the holocaust.
Iran needs to be taught a lesson that can be done by a massive airstrike on its airforsce and possible nuclear facilities.
Just enough to keep them from developing the bomb over the next 25 years. |
but just enough to make the iranians really really angry.
have you ever had an iranian friend?
i would think twice before bombing iran. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: In the Hands of the Military |
|
|
| thepeel wrote: |
It is up to the generals to stop a war because the media has scared and radicalized the population to such an extent that they accept permanent war as the only normal situation available. This is suicide. |
Cheney's not that big a threat. You have Gates and Rice and the realists on one side of the boat. And that side of the boat is heavier and has more influence with the President of late. Cheney has squandered all his influence convincing Bush to uphold torture policies.
The otherwise obsequious military has its feet planted firmly. The American populous is not in uproar because, well frankly, Bush has not said he is going to attack Iran. At most he's made some mildly provocative moves on the borders in Iraq.
In the meantime, what happened to that whole Turkey crisis? Let's give the administration some credit for that...somehow the diplomats in the administration managed to woo Erdogen. No mean feat given the PKK ARE a bunch of terrorists. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mcgeezer
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The army should do as it is told, short of things like the holocaust.
Iran needs to be taught a lesson that can be done by a massive airstrike on its airforsce and possible nuclear facilities.
Just enough to keep them from developing the bomb over the next 25 years |
You are quite an ignorant fellow contrarian.....have you ever thought what a strike of any kind against Iran would do to the united states?
Further, how can ANYONE trust the administrations claims that Iran has a clandestine nuclear program...I mean if you beleived Rumsfeld when he said "we know where the weapons are. They near the Tikrit area of Baghdad, and to the north, East, south, and west of there"..... then i guess you would beleive anything!
I mean COME ON!!!!!
If you seriously want an attack on Iran, okay that's fine! But i hope you enjoy the cheap gasoline in the U.S. right now, because an attack would push the price up to 10$/gallon easily.....but hey, at least we would destroy their supposed plan to build a bomb within the next 25 years. What a great idea! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mcgeezer
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
No mean feat given the PKK ARE a bunch of terrorists.
|
Any idea why the PKK use so-called terrorist acitivities?
I guess it has nothing to do with the tens of thousands of Kurds that the Turkish military killed in the 1990's with full harware support from the U.S. now is it?? Naaa they're just crazy guys running around looking to pick a fight that's all.....
You guys who make readical claims in Dave's need to do some more reading of global history and not watch FOX or CNN....
| Quote: |
Terrorism: If they do it, it's terrorism....If we do it it's counterterrorism and therefore justified...."
-NOAM CHOMSKY |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am a Canadian and a neocon.
Ahmadinejad has said what Iran will do. Take them at their word and hit them real had for a few days. Turn the Iraqi Kurds loose to unitw with fellow Kurds in Iran.
A strike like that would do nothing to the US. At worst there might be a terrorist attack. That would re-elect the Republicans.
I am aslo very pro Israel (my second passport is Israeli) so anyhting that makes Israels lot easier also meets my approval. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I am a Canadian and a neocon. |
are you kidding me?
you've also got your head up your arse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mcgeezer
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I am aslo very pro Israel (my second passport is Israeli) so anyhting that makes Israels lot easier also meets my approval.
|
ahhh i see...perhaps you should focus on the Israeli problems first before picking a fight with Iran...
A good place to start would be, hmmm.....let's see... How about the 35 year brutal and illegal occupation of Palestinian Land...
Once you admit to your own wrongdoing then it's ok to seek out the problems of others....but not doing so makes you a hypocrit, similar to the actions that the U.S. government has done recently... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
are you kidding me?
you've also got your head up your arse. |
Hmmm. And I thought you were the one who went on and on about how people should at least listen to the other side. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: In the Hands of the Military |
|
|
| thepeel wrote: |
| Quote: |
By Chris Hedges
The last, best hope for averting a war with Iran lies with the United States military. The Democratic Congress, cowed by the Israel lobby and terrified of appearing weak on defense before the presidential elections, will do nothing to halt an attack. The media, especially the electronic press, is working overtime to whip up fear of a nuclear Iran and tar Tehran with abetting attacks against American troops in Iraq. The American public is complacent, unsure of what to believe, knocked off balance by fear and passive. We will be saved or doomed by our generals.
The last wall of defense that prevents the Bush administration from targeting Iran, an attack that could ignite a regional conflagration and usher in apocalyptic scenarios in the Middle East, runs through the offices of Secretary of Defense Robert Gates; Adm. William Fallon , the head of the Central Command (CENTCOM); and Gen. George Casey, the Army�s new chief of staff. These three figures in the defense establishment have told George W. Bush and the Congress how depleted the U.S. military has become, that it cannot manage another conflict, and that a war with Iran would make the war with Iraq look like an act of prudence and common sense.
The reliance on the military command, however, to be the voice of reason in the debate about a new war is not a healthy sign for our deteriorating democracy. Compliant generals can always be found to carry out the Dr. Strangelove designs of a mad White House. Those who resist implementing decisions can easily be removed. The protective cover provided by these figures in the defense establishment could vanish.
The United States is able to launch a massive and devastating air attack on Iran�s military installations. It can obliterate the Iranian air force. It can cripple if not dismantle effective communications and military command and control. It can destroy some of Iran�s underground nuclear facilities. But our intelligence inside Iran, as was true in Iraq, is uneven. We do not know where all of Iran�s nuclear facilities are. And it is probable that an Iranian response against American targets, such as the Green Zone in Iraq, as well as Iranian-sponsored terrorist attacks on American soil, would follow. Shiites in the region would interpret an attack as a war on the Shiite community and would unleash unrest, terrorism and violence against us and our allies from Lebanon to Pakistan.
The battle is between the Cheney camp, which would like to carry out strikes on Iran before Bush leaves office, and Gates and his senior generals. Cheney, who has always been able to push aside the feckless Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, is having a tougher time with the military. Fallon, for example, was successful in his attempt to block efforts by Cheney to move a third aircraft carrier into the Persian Gulf earlier this year and bluntly said that �there would be no war against Iran� as long as he was chief of CENTCOM.
Gen. Casey informed Congress this fall that the Army was �out of balance� and added: �The demand for our forces exceeds the sustainable supply. We are consumed with meeting the demands of the current fight, and are unable to provide ready forces as rapidly as necessary for other potential contingencies.�
This White House has a habit of dismissing recalcitrant generals. Gen. Eric Shinseki, when he was chief of staff of the Army, ended his career when he told the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee on the eve of the war in Iraq that �something in the order of several hundred thousand soldiers� would probably be required for postwar Iraq. Gen. Peter Pace also ran afoul of the White House and was not nominated for a second term as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he publicly defied Donald Rumsfeld. At a press conference in November 2005 he stood next to Rumsfeld as the secretary of defense asserted that �the United States does not have a responsibility� to prevent torture by Iraqi officials. Pace pointedly disagreed with Rumsfeld, saying, �It is the absolute responsibility of every U.S. service member, if they see inhumane treatment being conducted, to intervene, to stop it.� Pace also openly dismissed White House claims that Iran was supplying weapons and explosively formed penetrators to Iraqi insurgents. He too was shown the door.
The White House, isolated and reviled at home and abroad, believes it is on a higher mission to save the world from itself. The instability in the Middle East could undermine Gates and his generals. A limited Israeli strike on suspected Iranian nuclear production facilities, currently under discussion in Jerusalem, could trigger retaliatory strikes by Iran on Israel and U.S. targets in Iraq and the Persian Gulf. The clamor for revenge, fueled by a rapacious right-wing media, coupled with our feelings of collective humiliation, could sweep aside all reasoned objections to war with Iran. It happened after the attacks of 2001. It can happen again.
There is a petition circulating that was put together by Marcy Winograd from the Progressive Democrats. The petition is addressed to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and all U.S. military personnel. It urges them to defy orders to attack Iran. It points out that a pre-emptive war with Iran is a war crime under international law. It reminds military personnel of the statute in the Army Field Manual 27-10, Section 609, and Uniform Code of Military Justice, Article 92, that states: �A general order or regulation is lawful unless it is contrary to the Constitution, the law of the United States. ...�
The petition notes that any provision of an international treaty ratified by the United States becomes the law of the United States. The United States is a party and signatory to the United Nations Charter, of which Article II, Section 4, states, �All members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state. ...�
Iran has not attacked the United States. The U.S., as a party and signatory to the U.N. charter, would be in clear violation of international law and the laws enshrined in the Constitution if it went to war with Iran. If the citizens and their representatives in Congress refuse to resist and uphold the rule of law, perhaps the military can be prodded to halt our slide into despotism. It is not the best option, but it may be the only one left.
We live now at the mercy of events. A provocation by Iran, aided by a bellicose White House, could plunge us into another war. It could unleash the primitive chant for violence and revenge that rises up from a population that feels vulnerable, uncertain and afraid. There are forces in our society ready and willing to fan the blood lust for a wider circle of war and mayhem. The Iranians, like us, are cursed by their leadership. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is as primitive, inept and paranoid as George Bush. They are the perfect dance partners for a waltz into Armageddon. |
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20071112_at_the_mercy_of_our_military/
It is up to the generals to stop a war because the media has scared and radicalized the population to such an extent that they accept permanent war as the only normal situation available. This is suicide. |
You do know that Iran has been after the US for a while. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it is about time that the Palestinians were ethnically cleansed but I would settle for letting them have Gaza and 85% of the West Bank. Then Israel can finish the wall and the Palestinians can either be peaceful or starve.
By the way GOD have the land to the Jews. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
thepeel cited:
| Quote: |
| The American public is complacent, unsure of what to believe, knocked off balance by fear and passive. |
Looks like Hedges needs a better copy editor, not to mention someone who will reign in his histrionic tone. He hypes even as he condemns the media for supposedly doing the same.
And then there is this typical far Left tripe:
| Quote: |
| It could unleash the primitive chant for violence and revenge that rises up from a population that feels vulnerable, uncertain and afraid. There are forces in our society ready and willing to fan the blood lust for a wider circle of war and mayhem. The Iranians, like us, are cursed by their leadership. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is as primitive, inept and paranoid as George Bush. They are the perfect dance partners for a waltz into Armageddon. |
"...unleash the primitive chant...." Stirring prose but gives the impression of the natives calling out for King Kong from behind their huge wooden walls.
"...fan the blood lust...." Sounds like a bad billboard for the latest Seagal action flick.
The Iranian President (notice the order of comparison, which is revealing in and of itself) "is as primitive, inept and paranoid as George Bush." Nothing like equating a tinpot mouthpiece for a ruthless theocracy with a twice-elected President of a democracy. As usual, the Left has no sense of proportionality.
As for the "waltz into Armageddon," well, can you say hyperbole?
No one in the West has provoked Iran into its belligerent regional stance. The theocrats in Tehran want to take attention away from the dismal Iranian economy by rousing Persian nationalism. Regardless of who occupied the White House at this juncture, they would be confronted by a recalcitrant Iranian regime bent on regional domination.
kuros noted:
| Quote: |
| In the meantime, what happened to that whole Turkey crisis? Let's give the administration some credit for that...somehow the diplomats in the administration managed to woo Erdogen. No mean feat given the PKK ARE a bunch of terrorists. |
Good point but don't expect the Far Left to acknowledge any positive moves that are at variance with their demonization campaign against the Bush Administration.
Obama has gone on public record supporting a hard line against Pakistan. I don't hear anyone on the Far Left accusing him of fomenting regional unrest.
contrarian revealed:
| Quote: |
| I am aslo very pro Israel...so anyhting that makes Israels lot easier also meets my approval. |
I'll second that motion.
looseends disparaged contrarian:
| Quote: |
| you've also got your head up your arse. |
Better than having an arse for a head.
mcgeezer challenged:
| Quote: |
How about the 35 year brutal and illegal occupation of Palestinian Land...
Once you admit to your own wrongdoing then it's ok to seek out the problems of others....but not doing so makes you a hypocrit, similar to the actions that the U.S. government has done recently... |
Ah, I see. How about the 35 years of terrorist plots by a plethora of Palestinian groups?
Once you admit to your own wrongdoing then it's o.k. to seek out the problmes of others...but not so doing makes you a hypocrite.
And let's not forget how Arafat refused the peace overtures of the Clinton Administration and encouraged the second intifada.
Or how Hamas still refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.
Or how Iran calls for the destruction of the Jewish state.
[/b] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
