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renzobenzo1
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Location: Suji, Yongin
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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: Absurd? Is walking into a Korean place.... |
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like an appliance shop, restaurant or ______ place location here, and trying/wanting to speak English the same as a Korean man/woman trying to speak Korean and get away with it in the same place in say America or Australia.....
Sign language aside, do we foreigners expect too much being here and not speaking the mother tongue?
Discuss |
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Don Calliente
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Location: SEOUL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Absurd? Is walking into a Korean place.... |
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| renzobenzo1 wrote: |
like an appliance shop, restaurant or ______ place location here, and trying/wanting to speak English the same as a Korean man/woman trying to speak Korean and get away with it in the same place in say America or Australia.....
Sign language aside, do we foreigners expect too much being here and not speaking the mother tongue?
Discuss |
Yes, the assumption and attitude are the same.
However WE get away with it as most Koreans know some basic English whereas hardly anyone outside of Asia would know ANY Korean. |
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kreitler7
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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In theory, yes it is the same. But the reality is that English is the international language now. However, many Koreans get really pi*ssed when you don't make an effort. Even if you can't put a sentence together, just throw the basic words for what you need at them.
What do you think about the Koreans in Koreatown in LA that can't speak English? I phoned one girl and she answered her phone "Yoboseyo?" Ridiculous right? And she's lived there for 6 years. So, yeah, I can understand why Koreans are mad at us.
I also get mad at other foreigners who don't bother speaking Korean. They just seem to exude an arrogance and apathetic attitude that turns me off.
Even though English is international, Koreans are very proud. So, at least make an effort. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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No it's not. Let's look at it this way.
Is it the same for a Chinese person to walk into a restaurant in Korea and trying to speak English the for them to walk into a restaurant in Australia trying to speak Korean? No it isn't.
Why?
English is used as the international language.
I have a Taiwanese friend who has voiced their displeasure at the general inability of the locals to speak English. However, I know she doesn't feel the same way about them not understanding Chinese. And, I doubt she would find it annoying if someone in Australia doesn't speak Korean. |
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Don Calliente
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Location: SEOUL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
No it's not. Let's look at it this way.
Is it the same for a Chinese person to walk into a restaurant in Korea and trying to speak English the for them to walk into a restaurant in Australia trying to speak Korean? No it isn't.
Why?
English is used as the international language.
I have a Taiwanese friend who has voiced their displeasure at the general inability of the locals to speak English. However, I know she doesn't feel the same way about them not understanding Chinese. And, I doubt she would find it annoying if someone in Australia doesn't speak Korean. |
It's so patronising this 'English is used as the international language.'
For business, traveling (maybe) and science perhaps, but we CAN NOT EXPECT everyday people from other countries to know English or care about using it in their daily lives.!
How handy for Westerners, yet how expensive, time consuming and inconvenient for everyday people from other nations!
Talk about cultural imperialism!!!!
Come off your high horse with this nonsense. Why should a Korean hairdresser / dry cleaner / waitress etc - study english just to accomodate some English teacher who can't speak the local language!!!???
What a load of dross! |
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crazy_arcade
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
No it's not. Let's look at it this way.
Is it the same for a Chinese person to walk into a restaurant in Korea and trying to speak English the for them to walk into a restaurant in Australia trying to speak Korean? No it isn't.
Why?
English is used as the international language.
I have a Taiwanese friend who has voiced their displeasure at the general inability of the locals to speak English. However, I know she doesn't feel the same way about them not understanding Chinese. And, I doubt she would find it annoying if someone in Australia doesn't speak Korean. |
Sure, but your Taiwanese friend should pose as a Japanese person in her own country trying to get by in English. She'll notice the same thing.
Same goes for Koreans visiting Japan and trying to get by in English and vice versa.
glass windows. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| crazy_arcade wrote: |
| ajgeddes wrote: |
No it's not. Let's look at it this way.
Is it the same for a Chinese person to walk into a restaurant in Korea and trying to speak English the for them to walk into a restaurant in Australia trying to speak Korean? No it isn't.
Why?
English is used as the international language.
I have a Taiwanese friend who has voiced their displeasure at the general inability of the locals to speak English. However, I know she doesn't feel the same way about them not understanding Chinese. And, I doubt she would find it annoying if someone in Australia doesn't speak Korean. |
Sure, but your Taiwanese friend should pose as a Japanese person in her own country trying to get by in English. She'll notice the same thing.
Same goes for Koreans visiting Japan and trying to get by in English and vice versa.
glass windows. |
Actually, I myself found the level of English in Taiwan to be quite refreshing. Everywhere we went, we never once had a problem. Never had a problem in Japan either, except for that they will never speak back to in English. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Calliente wrote: |
It's so patronising this 'English is used as the international language.'
For business, traveling (maybe) and science perhaps, but we CAN NOT EXPECT everyday people from other countries to know English or care about using it in their daily lives.!
How handy for Westerners, yet how expensive, time consuming and inconvenient for everyday people from other nations!
Talk about cultural imperialism!!!!
Come off your high horse with this nonsense. Why should a Korean hairdresser / dry cleaner / waitress etc - study english just to accomodate some English teacher who can't speak the local language!!!???
What a load of dross! |
How is it patronising? People spend years studying the language. Of course, not everybody is going to be able to do it, nor are people in industries completely unrelated to anything to do with tourism.
I didn't notice this thread asking about English teachers living in Korea. It said foreigners. Travellers are also foreigners, and I see you said (maybe) it is okay for them to expect it. Also, since when do all "Westerners" speak English as a first language? Also, expensive? It is studied in school. Nobody is expecting anybody to speak it fluently.
I myself, don't speak English to people because I am know it isn't going to be me anywhere, but I don't think it is unreasonable to expect it in a country that spends so much on learning it. Too bad, expectations and reality are often so very different.
I should also add, that I actually do find the level of English in Seoul to not actually be that poor. Sure, they aren't going to talk to you about politics, but most people at a decent restaurant can take your order in English. |
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Don Calliente
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Location: SEOUL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
| Don Calliente wrote: |
It's so patronising this 'English is used as the international language.'
For business, traveling (maybe) and science perhaps, but we CAN NOT EXPECT everyday people from other countries to know English or care about using it in their daily lives.!
How handy for Westerners, yet how expensive, time consuming and inconvenient for everyday people from other nations!
Talk about cultural imperialism!!!!
Come off your high horse with this nonsense. Why should a Korean hairdresser / dry cleaner / waitress etc - study english just to accomodate some English teacher who can't speak the local language!!!???
What a load of dross! |
How is it patronising? People spend years studying the language. Of course, not everybody is going to be able to do it, nor are people in industries completely unrelated to anything to do with tourism.
I'm not sure. I spent years studying German at school. Had zero interest in it. Can I remember any of it now? NO, I can't. What with the hours of extra hakwan (multiple subjects) studying they do and the exam hell they go through, I don't think it would be unusual for the average Korean over 18 yrs of age (especially as many only learned it through grammar books at high school) to not remember any of the Enlgish they learned years ago.
I didn't notice this thread asking about English teachers living in Korea. It said foreigners. Travellers are also foreigners, and I see you said (maybe) it is okay for them to expect it. Also, since when do all "Westerners" speak English as a first language? Also, expensive? It is studied in school. Nobody is expecting anybody to speak it fluently.
Sorry, I think you misread my post. I meant English is the international language for business, tourism and science. Even with regards to tourism, most smart people would learn some Spanish before going to Spain rather than English - don't you think? Sure it's studied in school (NOW, a few years back it was only through grammar books as I mentioned and they never got a chance to practice speaking it.) but so what? Maybe they had zero interest in it as my High School coteacher explained to me when I asked her why half of my students thought it okay to sleep in my class. This is the REALITY of TEFL in Korea. And I don't know why you nit-picked this one, but I just used an English teacher as an example.
I myself, don't speak English to people because I am know it isn't going to be me anywhere, but I don't think it is unreasonable to expect it in a country that spends so much on learning it. Too bad, expectations and reality are often so very different.
I should also add, that I actually do find the level of English in Seoul to not actually be that poor. Sure, they aren't going to talk to you about politics, but most people at a decent restaurant can take your order in English. |
And how about the people with emotional feelings who feel patronised and embarrassed that you travel / work in their country but expect them to speak English to you???
Hell, the Spanish study English. I was in Spain over the summer and couldn't express what I wanted with my rudimentary Spanish skills. I gave up and asked 'do you understand English? The guy sneered at me and said in Spanish 'This is Spain, don't you understand spanish?' I didn't appreciate his tone, but I understood his reaction perfectly.
Native English speakers should realise the reality that English is only the unoficial world language because of western (US, formerly Britain) domination in business and previous wars. Foriegners learn and use it because they have to, for promotions etc. This doesn't mean that they accept it as the international language in the sense that you imply and I'm sure (as I would) a lot of them resent the time and money they have to invest in learning it and wish they were in our position.
So peeps next time you're abroad, learn some of the local dialect and sure if you need to, try and communicate in English, but don't just assume and expect it. And don't get angry, confused or infuriated if a hairdresser / tailor / train attendent etc doesn't understand you. |
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kiwiliz
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| kreitler7 wrote: |
I also get mad at other foreigners who don't bother speaking Korean. They just seem to exude an arrogance and apathetic attitude that turns me off.
Even though English is international, Koreans are very proud. So, at least make an effort. |
I am not here to learn Korean. I was hired and brought to this country to teach English.
People here have studied English at school for atleast the last 30 years. I am continually amazed and pleasantly suprised at the people I meet who have enough english to say hello and have a small conversation, and this is not jsut the young people.
I do hope Korea does not become like France where most people can speak English but refuse to.
There are jobs now in Thailand you cannot get if you don't have English, it is becoming that important, I think many would like to be able to practise. Korea has decided, and did so many years ago...tht learning English was important, which is why its compulsory. So no, I do not think its too much to expect that some people in a shop would be able to answer basic questions in English. |
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nobbyken
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Location: Yongin ^^
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Its a bonus when people can talk English, but I don't expect it.
I am really grateful when they do speak English to me, but if I am in trouble and my sign language+pigeon Korean is not working then I phone my wife. |
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Don Calliente
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Location: SEOUL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiliz wrote: |
| kreitler7 wrote: |
I also get mad at other foreigners who don't bother speaking Korean. They just seem to exude an arrogance and apathetic attitude that turns me off.
Even though English is international, Koreans are very proud. So, at least make an effort. |
I am not here to learn Korean. I was hired and brought to this country to teach English.
Beats her chest. ENGLISH GODDAMN IT! So - if a Korean was brought to the US to teach Korean - you wouldn't think they were lazy / ignorant / stupid to expect to live in the country for at least a year and interact with their colleagues and NOT speak any English? What planet are you on!!?
People here have studied English at school for atleast the last 30 years. I am continually amazed and pleasantly suprised at the people I meet who have enough english to say hello and have a small conversation, and this is not jsut the young people.
Read my last post in response to[b] adgjes, which adresses this issue[/b]
I do hope Korea does not become like France where most people can speak English but refuse to.
I do hope Koreans don't become like you - people who travel to other countries, don't bother studying the language before hand (stupid) and just expect the natives to speak THEIR language!!!!!
There are jobs now in Thailand you cannot get if you don't have English, it is becoming that important, I think many would like to be able to practise. Korea has decided, and did so many years ago...tht learning English was important, which is why its compulsory. So no, I do not think its too much to expect that some people in a shop would be able to answer basic questions in English. |
How do you spell arrogant and ignorant? |
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GerryTulip
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Calliente wrote: |
| kiwiliz wrote: |
| kreitler7 wrote: |
I also get mad at other foreigners who don't bother speaking Korean. They just seem to exude an arrogance and apathetic attitude that turns me off.
Even though English is international, Koreans are very proud. So, at least make an effort. |
I am not here to learn Korean. I was hired and brought to this country to teach English.
Beats her chest. ENGLISH GODDAMN IT! So - if a Korean was brought to the US to teach Korean - you wouldn't think they were lazy / ignorant / stupid to expect to live in the country for at least a year and interact with their colleagues and NOT speak any English? What planet are you on!!?
People here have studied English at school for atleast the last 30 years. I am continually amazed and pleasantly suprised at the people I meet who have enough english to say hello and have a small conversation, and this is not jsut the young people.
Read my last post in response to[b] adgjes, which adresses this issue[/b]
I do hope Korea does not become like France where most people can speak English but refuse to.
I do hope Koreans don't become like you - people who travel to other countries, don't bother studying the language before hand (stupid) and just expect the natives to speak THEIR language!!!!!
There are jobs now in Thailand you cannot get if you don't have English, it is becoming that important, I think many would like to be able to practise. Korea has decided, and did so many years ago...tht learning English was important, which is why its compulsory. So no, I do not think its too much to expect that some people in a shop would be able to answer basic questions in English. |
How do you spell arrogant and ignorant? |
Shut it spellchecker :-/ |
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Don Calliente
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Location: SEOUL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| GerryTulip wrote: |
| Don Calliente wrote: |
| kiwiliz wrote: |
| kreitler7 wrote: |
I also get mad at other foreigners who don't bother speaking Korean. They just seem to exude an arrogance and apathetic attitude that turns me off.
Even though English is international, Koreans are very proud. So, at least make an effort. |
I am not here to learn Korean. I was hired and brought to this country to teach English.
Beats her chest. ENGLISH GODDAMN IT! So - if a Korean was brought to the US to teach Korean - you wouldn't think they were lazy / ignorant / stupid to expect to live in the country for at least a year and interact with their colleagues and NOT speak any English? What planet are you on!!?
People here have studied English at school for atleast the last 30 years. I am continually amazed and pleasantly suprised at the people I meet who have enough english to say hello and have a small conversation, and this is not jsut the young people.
Read my last post in response to[b] adgjes, which adresses this issue[/b]
I do hope Korea does not become like France where most people can speak English but refuse to.
I do hope Koreans don't become like you - people who travel to other countries, don't bother studying the language before hand (stupid) and just expect the natives to speak THEIR language!!!!!
There are jobs now in Thailand you cannot get if you don't have English, it is becoming that important, I think many would like to be able to practise. Korea has decided, and did so many years ago...tht learning English was important, which is why its compulsory. So no, I do not think its too much to expect that some people in a shop would be able to answer basic questions in English. |
How do you spell arrogant and ignorant? |
Shut it spellchecker :-/ |
Hey Tuliup, glad you have a lot to say on the issue. You know, reading through a thread about quite an interesting topic and adding insults abut people checking spelling. Oh and missing the irony that this person bangs on about expecting everyone to speak English but can't even spell properly. Why it's okay! She was brought here to teach ENGLISH!!! |
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greek buddha
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiliz wrote: |
| kreitler7 wrote: |
I also get mad at other foreigners who don't bother speaking Korean. They just seem to exude an arrogance and apathetic attitude that turns me off.
Even though English is international, Koreans are very proud. So, at least make an effort. |
I am not here to learn Korean. I was hired and brought to this country to teach English.
People here have studied English at school for atleast the last 30 years. I am continually amazed and pleasantly suprised at the people I meet who have enough english to say hello and have a small conversation, and this is not jsut the young people.
I do hope Korea does not become like France where most people can speak English but refuse to.
There are jobs now in Thailand you cannot get if you don't have English, it is becoming that important, I think many would like to be able to practise. Korea has decided, and did so many years ago...tht learning English was important, which is why its compulsory. So no, I do not think its too much to expect that some people in a shop would be able to answer basic questions in English. |
What the hell? Did they kidnap you and take you in the middle of the night? Force you with a knife to your throat to teach them English? You think you went there to teach some ajuma in a restaurant to speak English just in case YOU walk in high and mighty and want to order kamja-tang in English...wow
I agree Don Calliente, what the hell is wrong with these people. Why should you expect people in their own country to speak someone else's language? Reminds me about a few years ago in Greece on the island of Santorini. I was waiting to rent a motorbike and this ignorant American in front of me was getting pissed because the guy didn't understand all his English. Of course the American kept asking him if he understood "AMERICAN" not English. He then turns to me and figures i'm a foreigner and says what a bunch of idiots. I'm Greek by the way born in Canada. So I just laugh to my self. The idiot basically throws some American bills at him to just pay. He figured that the money would talk for him. The Greek guy is telling him that he won't take the American money. This isn't the U.S and gave it back. The Amercian is standing there like what? they don't take the mighty U.S dollar and again starts getting pissed at the guy for not taking it and want to give it to the guy again. So the Greek guy behind the counter took the money and crumpled it and threw it on the ground and told him to get lost in Greek and broken English. This is Greece he was telling him. It's been around a lot longer than the U.S and so on. Sorry for the long story...but that's just it people all over the world have that sort of attitude. English? really? in my country? why? just to please the ignorant English speakers who think they can go anywhere and exepct people to bow down to them. wow! the rest of the world has been around alot lot longer than the U.S or Canada. They are the young punks of the world trying to tell the older world wiser whatever what to do. They just haven't gotten smacked around good enough to realize to just shup up for once. |
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