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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: Populism and Fascism |
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[edit] Populism and Fascism
Mass based right�wing populist movements are a precursor for and building blocks of fascist movements. Both often share elements of anti-elitist conspiracism and ethno-centric scapegoating.[22][23][24] Conspiracist scapegoating employed by various right wing populist movements can create �a seedbed for fascism.�[25] One way this can happen is in protest movements against globalization on behalf of corporate interests.[26]
Right�wing populism interacted with and facilitated fascism in interwar Germany.[27]. In this case, distressed middle�class populists during the pre-Nazi Weimar period mobilized their anger at government and big business. The Nazis "parasitized the forms and themes of the populists and moved their constituencies far to the right through ideological appeals involving demagoguery, scapegoating, and conspiracism".[28] According to Fritzsche:
The Nazis expressed the populist yearnings of middle�class constituents and at the same time advocated a strong and resolutely anti-Marxist mobilization....Against �unnaturally� divisive parties and querulous organized interest groups, National Socialists cast themselves as representatives of the commonweal, of an allegedly betrayed and neglected German public....[b]reaking social barriers of status and caste, and celebrating at least rhetorically the populist ideal of the people�s community... [29]
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Seven years of a horrendously inept Bush administration have naturally produced a reaction. People are searching for a way to restore the country to a better path, a path that leads back to the values we like to think our country represents.
Classical Athens was a democracy. The US is a republic--a republic with democratic elements. We must think very carefully about the difference between them and understand why the Founding Fathers chose to be inspired by the Ancient Roman Republic and much less so by Classical Athens.
Americans revere their Constitution. They should. It's a good system. It was the first written constitution in history that separated power and balanced power in an attempt to control power. Many other countries have since followed that example, for good reason.
However, Americans tend to over-praise the Founding Fathers, mostly by lumping them all together and ignoring the differences between them. Washington and Jefferson did not think the same. Far from it.
Moreover, Americans tend to forget the other leaders we had after the generation of the Founding Fathers. Our government is a work in progress. It was not laid out in final form in Philadelphia in 1787; only the blue print was. That is what a constitution is.
Our nation is in a mess today because of the current administration. Three out of four people openly admit it and I suspect that the real number is even higher.
The wisest course ahead is not to lash out at the mistakes of the recent past and over-react, but to choose a leader who will make course corrections that put us back on the path to good government, taking into consideration the wisdom of all the leaders of the past 2 1/4 centuries. Radical approaches are not the solution. The present administration is evidence of what happens when you ignore the accumulated wisdom. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, the problems we face, the "recent" past that is looming ahead in a financial crisis that may well melt down the world economy worse than the Great Depression, date from the Wilson administration, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Bush, Clinton, Bush ...
the Federal Reserve
the IRS
Social Security
Fiat currency
out of control entitlements
the American Empire
the socialist transportation system
the socialist ifrastructure
etc.
The Nazis were socialists.
War is the ultimate socialist act.
The US needs to return to the forward looking ideas of liberty and the constitution.
The world took thousands of years to discover the ideas of liberty. The ideas of socialism, which is just government control for the benefit of the rulers, is the oldest, most discredited, political-economic paradigm the world has seen. It has failed. Its time has passed.
The torch has been passed to a new generation, a generation seeking liberty. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: |
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The torch has been passed to a new generation, a generation seeking liberty.
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This may be the crux of the problem between us. You think you are a member of a new generation that knows (and wants) something that no one else has had (unless it is in a mythical, mystical, non-existent) past.
I lived during enough of the 20th Century when ideologies said they could deliver utopia. You are in a group that is just the most recent version of that misinformed, misguided group.
You display a contempt for the wisdom and success of the past century and a half, the century when the country rose to global pre-eminence while reforming itself at home to liberate ethnic minorities and women from the chains of past prejudice.
Your contempt borders on treason. For shame! |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Treason:
The creation of the Federal Reserve that the founders and all real economists had warned against. Turning the money over to a monopoly bank and allowing them the "legal" right (ie permitted by the government cabal) was an act of Treason.
(Even Alan Greenspan opposes the Fed and supports the gold standard. This was true both befoe and after his term as head of the Federal Reserve.)
The IRS and the Income Tax were created in 1914. This was done with a constitutional amendment that several historians have shown NEVER passed. The founders had recognized that direct taxation was a danger that should never be allowed. The imposition of the Income Tax was an act of Treason.
FDR stole the Americans' gold and left them at the mercy of the Fed.
This was an illegal, unconstitutional act of Treason. An impeachable violation of the constitution. Treason.
Entry into a variety of wars under false pretenses.
These are just a few of the acts of treason committed by the 20th Century Fascist Socialists who ruled America.
Utopia:
It is the socialists, (the earliest are referred to as the Utopian Socialists in all economic history texts) have promised utopia through government control as their ploy to sucker the ignorant masses into following them backwards into the slavery of government control.
I remember "I like Ike." I watched the first televised presidential debates. I saw Jack Ruby shoot Oswald on live TV. Listened as Nixon lied about going off the gold standard. So, I witnessed a good deal of the 20th Century. The utopia promised by the socialists has turned into a disaster. Economists have shown that government has reduced the US standard of living by 95% from what it would be at the present time through its socialistic programs. That is a complete failure and tragedy. The US Social Security program ALONE is responsible for preventing the creation of a MINIMUM of 100 million jobs around the world.
But you can buy the lies if you want to, Yata.
One interesting side note about one of our American socialist folk "heros."
In 1968, in Iowa, Bobby Kennedy's campaign manager, a man name Bruno who later retired to live in Maine, stole my uncle's car, totaled it in an accident on his way to the airport, abandoned it, and continued on his way to catch the Kennedy's private campaign plane in Des Moines.
My uncle, along with the Polk County Sheriff, stopped the plane on the runway as it was taking off by driving in front of it in a police car. The Kennedys, including Bobby, tried to lie their way out of it. They, like other socialists, didn't care who they hurt. They just wanted power.
The Sheriff arrested Bruno and took him to jail. He was released after the campaign paid for the car.
The Kennedys still owe millions of dollars in unpaid bills from their various campaigns dating back to the 1950s. They promised to pay businessmen all across America, but never paid.
Another example of the:
Scum of the 20th Century that ruled America and destroyed its liberty.
Yes. We need a rEVOLution. We need to restore the Republic. Its time to fight for our liberty. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Populism and Fascism |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The wisest course ahead is not to lash out at the mistakes of the recent past and over-react, but to choose a leader who will make course corrections that put us back on the path to good government |
No, son. The people are the government. Their primacy must be restored. They are speaking with wisdom: Get out of Iraq. Restore Habeus Corpus. Don't torture. The "leaders" are not listening. "Leaders" are nothing more than employees. It is time for those who have forgotten this to be reminded.
Impeachment would be a good first step.
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Radical approaches are not the solution. |
Tell that to the founding fathers. Anyway, impeachment is not radical. Demonstration is not radical. Cutting funding for illegal activities is not radical. So, what "radical" solutions do you mean? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Tell that to the founding fathers. Anyway, impeachment is not radical. Demonstration is not radical. Cutting funding for illegal activities is not radical. So, what "radical" solutions do you mean? |
For starters, overturning a legitimate (Election of '04) election by impeachment and conviction is radical. The People spoke in Nov. '04 and said their leader for the next four years was to be Bush. As much as I objected, that is what The People said.
The process gives us a remedy next year. Trust the system. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: |
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So, the people who voted for a war criminal, torturer and out-and-out retard, you can respect their opinion. But people who want to elect the exact opposite of this, you think are crazy?
I think that your mind is simply not sufficiently flexible to accept change. You're a conservative.
The Democrats and Republicans have been bought and paid for by big business and special interests. It doesn't matter if if Clinton or Romney win, the government is accountable to those who got it elected. The nature of the beast has to be fundamentally changed. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: |
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The nature of the beast has to be fundamentally changed. |
We're finally getting to the crux of the matter. You, who say you want to emigrate, want to overthrow the system. Interesting. Does Immigration know this? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I think that your mind is simply not sufficiently flexible to accept change. You're a conservative.
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I have said for some time that I am a Constitutional conservative. I am quite proud of that. I am a broad constructionist in many areas, but a Constitutional conservative overall. I'll leave it to you to flex your mind over that if you care to--or are even up to the task. I've said for several years on this forum that Bush and Co. are radicals who are distorting the essence of the Constitution.
What's your point? |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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Tell that to the founding fathers. Anyway, impeachment is not radical. Demonstration is not radical. Cutting funding for illegal activities is not radical. So, what "radical" solutions do you mean? |
For starters, overturning a legitimate (Election of '04) election by impeachment and conviction is radical. The People spoke in Nov. '04 and said their leader for the next four years was to be Bush. As much as I objected, that is what The People said.
The process gives us a remedy next year. Trust the system. |
Clinton was democratically elected in '96 and was impeached. Was that radical?
How is impeachment 'radical' if it is in the Constitution?
Besides, every country needs a good revolution every couple of hundred years. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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Tell that to the founding fathers. Anyway, impeachment is not radical. Demonstration is not radical. Cutting funding for illegal activities is not radical. So, what "radical" solutions do you mean? |
For starters, overturning a legitimate (Election of '04) election by impeachment and conviction is radical. The People spoke in Nov. '04 and said their leader for the next four years was to be Bush. As much as I objected, that is what The People said.
The process gives us a remedy next year. Trust the system. |
Excuse the *beep* out of me, but impeachment is not part of the system? Are you out of your fucking mind? What is radical is NOT following the Constitution, as you propose. The document says the president SHALL be impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors. The law is for everyone, but you say the Constitution is to be followed only in the cases of crimes by non-leaders?
Again, are you out of your mind? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
We're finally getting to the crux of the matter. You, who say you want to emigrate, want to overthrow the system. Interesting. Does Immigration know this? |
1) I'm not going to move to a country about to have a financial meltdown. The mouth breathers (a category which surely includes you) can suffer their own bed. Much more money to be made in my vocation in Calgary.
2) Changing the nature of the beast does not mean "overthrowing the system". Again, you don't know what you are talking about. When have I ever said "overthrow"? Jesus H. Christ you are dense. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Clinton was democratically elected in '96 and was impeached. Was that radical?
How is impeachment 'radical' if it is in the Constitution?
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Yes, it was radical. The impeachment clause was put in for cases of true crime, not political disagreement. The impeachment of Clinton will go down in history as the example of abuse of power by the party in control of Congress. It was a sham--everyone but the most obtuse people know this. (Clinton was impeached to pay back the Democrats for almost impeaching Nixon in '74. Read your history.)
The Founders knew that sometimes men given power would abuse it. They inserted the impeachment clause for those cases. They did not put it in for cases of blow jobs. That is one of the most...I'm at a loss for words except to say that it is probably the lowest level the Republican Party has sunk in its century and a half of existence. It is no accident that the same party then went on to shred the Constitution. I can think of no time in our country's history where the leadership has served her so poorly except in the run-up to the Civil War. Republicans have a great deal to be ashamed of. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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I think that your mind is simply not sufficiently flexible to accept change. You're a conservative.
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I have said for some time that I am a Constitutional conservative. I am quite proud of that. I am a broad constructionist in many areas, but a Constitutional conservative overall. I'll leave it to you to flex your mind over that if you care to--or are even up to the task. I've said for several years on this forum that Bush and Co. are radicals who are distorting the essence of the Constitution.
What's your point? |
My point is that you are a True Believer. Totally unable to understand a position that is fundamentally different than the one you currently believe. Virtually every post you make contains a massive mistake or misunderstanding that you have about Ron Paul. You are unable to grasp the very basics of his platform. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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Clinton was democratically elected in '96 and was impeached. Was that radical?
How is impeachment 'radical' if it is in the Constitution?
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Yes, it was radical. The impeachment clause was put in for cases of true crime, not political disagreement. The impeachment of Clinton will go down in history as the example of abuse of power by the party in control of Congress. It was a sham--everyone but the most obtuse people know this. (Clinton was impeached to pay back the Democrats for almost impeaching Nixon in '74. Read your history.)
The Founders knew that sometimes men given power would abuse it. They inserted the impeachment clause for those cases. They did not put it in for cases of blow jobs. That is one of the most...I'm at a loss for words except to say that it is probably the lowest level the Republican Party has sunk in its century and a half of existence. It is no accident that the same party then went on to shred the Constitution. I can think of no time in our country's history where the leadership has served her so poorly except in the run-up to the Civil War. Republicans have a great deal to be ashamed of. |
Wire tapping is a federal offense. Federal. It is a violation of civil rights protections to privacy, etc., so also unconstitutional.
How far does one have to go?
Torture is illegal in more ways than is worth even bothering with.
Wars of aggression are illegal.
War, unless actually declared by the Congress, is unconstitutional - even if Congress is complicit.
Kidnapping is illegal.
Etc., etc., etc.
Defend this bizarre stance of yours because by your level of allowance there is nothing a president could do to get impeached. |
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