Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Mary-Jane]

I've been enduring some savagely uncomfortable classes with high school students. What's killing me is the terrible, ominous, suffocating silence of the classroom... I find many students will not say anything to me if they can possibly help it. If pushed, they might whisper a feeble sentence. But usually, if I ask them a question, they will do their best to look down and ignore me as though I can't see them if they can't see me, or just shake their heads. EVEN when I have ASKED them often to just SAY 'I don't know!', each lesson the students will revert back into silence.

In contrast, elementary and middle school students are usually eager to talk or to express opinions if I allow them free rein, and students who have studied abroad are naturally more open. So my question is, while I understand that younger kids are naturally more enthusiastic, is the contrast between Korean high schoolers / middle schoolers a consequence of a generation gap (different teachers, different attitudes, English lessons at a younger age...) or do students really just become morose, shy and silent from the rigors of high school?

I've tried joking, playing games (a limited range though with the stuff I have to teach...), offering them pizza or chocolate during break (NOT A PEEP!!!), telling them to feel free to talk... but after a while, I've had to give up and resort to lecturing slowly and carefully and passing out constant worksheets. They write well, so maybe I should just resort to purely written classroom conversations?! Neither I or they are enjoying our classes at all. It makes teaching a heck of a lot harder and slower if your students won't communicate. I'm supposed to teach advanced grammar and writing styles, and the only way to check understanding is to set them a writing exercise, then check it 10-15 minutes later to find that no one really understood and DIDN'T SAY SO!!!

[Yu_Bum_suk]

How large are your classes and in what type of institution do you teach?

I"ve had a few HS classes like you describe. It usually comes down to a bad class dynamic, though there are a few tricks you can use to get a lot of them saying something. Do you have a Korean teacher in classroom? That could be a big part of the problem.

[Snowkr]

Mary Jane

What kind of school are you working for?
Is it a public high school? I'd love to teach advanced grammar and writing but I teach conversation at a public high school that is apparantly the lowest in terms of scores in our city. Kind of sad actually but my students are often quite communicative... there are some in every class anyway which makes my job pretty fun.

My problem is the opposite most of the time. I just want them to shutup and listen to me sometimes!

[jessie-b]

I have a few high school classes and have found them to be more self-conscious than elementary and middle schoolers too. I've talked with a couple of students about it...really good speakers- outside of class. They say that students are worried about making mistakes in front of others, or even about seeming too good at English in front of other people. You have to keep forcing them to talk...get in their faces, don't worry about how uncool they think you are. Keep incorportating activities EVERYDAY where they have to speak, especially group activities where they must speak English to each other.(I HATED my spanish teacher for making us do that in high school. It was soooo uncomfortable.) That will mortify them at first but little by little, maybe after a few weeks, a few will break down and attempt it...then more and more will be forced to join in. You may be surprised. They would like nothing better than to stay in their shell and just do writing, but the more you incorporate speaking, the more they may find they enjoy it more than writing. Keep at it. I know its discouraging, but it will change.
Teaching teenagers has reminded me how negative and resistant I was at that age too, especially when learning a foreign language. Learning a language can make a person feel stupid and inept, and its hard to see the payoff when you're muddling through speaking simple sentences.
If a class is especially difficult I'll start them off with multiple choice speaking question. Noone can resist multiple choice...Do you prefer chocolate ice cream, vanilla or OTHER! WHY?! How was your day on a scale of 1 to 10? WHY? WHAT HAPPENED? Would you rather die by freezing, drowning or burning in a fire??????WHY??????? Just think of any ridiculous question as a warm up for the class. Sometimes I end the class with trivia questions and break the class into teams..countries'capitals, Korean trivia, food trivia. High school students know a lot of information, probably more than you about a wide variety of subjects, because they have recently memorized all those facts.

And about the "I don't know"....only the most competent of speakers will admit they don't understand something. Don't worry about that. Just ask leading questions to figure out if they really understand or not.

[Easter Clark]

In my experience, high school students (and even university students) of any nationality will clam up if they feel intimidated, either by the material, the presentation of said material, or fear of losing face (that fear existing if they have something to lose).

In my humble opinion, waiting 10-15 minutes before checking if the work is completed is not exactly a good idea. In my classes, I used to have to check immediately after giving the assignment. Invariably there were students who didn't even pick up a pen because they were completely lost, while others set to task right away. I would have students who understood help their neighbors, and if necessary I'd demonstrate the task with a more able student or co teacher. Actually, demonstrating the requirements of the task before allowing students to proceed is the best way to go--especially in EFL contexts.

As for their lack of participation, what is your assessment of classroom dynamics? Perhaps changing the seating arrangements, doing some sort of warm-up, or giving them material that is incredibly easy (to start the class off) could be ways to increase their confidence.

Please keep us posted on how this develops, as it would be helpful to many!

[Privateer]

They're pretty much subdued by that age by the intense pressure, lack of sleep, and constant cramming in preparation for the big university entrance exam, so you're swimming against the tide by trying to get them to open up.

If you're willing to make a determined effort you can try various physically demanding speaking activities (ones where they have to stand up, pass things around, clap, or chant, etc) to shake things up. This can be quite a strain on the teacher because you constantly have to pour a lot of energy into the class, so you might not want to do that. At least not all the time.

Since lack of feedback is making correction impossible, you could ...

*actively monitor while they're doing a writing exercise
*give them a test exercise of 1 or 2 sentences to do first so you can catch their errors early
*have them complete dialogues where student A has to fill in the blanks for student B and vice versa, then swap them around so they can correct each other, *then* maybe get them to come to you and read them out since they're too shy to read in front of the whole class

Got to go, this is more in the nature of a brainstorming exercise than a well-thought out answer for you...

[jaderedux2]

I teach middle school. I simply adore the 1st years. No inhibitions whatsoever. Boys will try to speak English for a candy or sticker or a simple "wow you are genius". They jump around waving their hands. The girls are determined to be as smart as the boys and damn well want to prove it...

and then 2nd year comes...

Those sweet little guys that left me notes and the girls that would scream out the bus at me have turned into man's worst night mare. TEENAGERS!

While a few will continue to talk the girls, who by the way can break glass with their shouting in the halls, suddenly have forgotten how to speak above a whisper. They are a bit sullen and slump in their chairs and the newest trend is to hike their skirts up until someone whacks them for it.

The same girls that wanted to be doctors, scientists and even police officers all of a sudden all want to be fashion designers, interior designers, singers or talent. I cannot get some of them to speak above a whisper...these are the same gals that were giggly, surrounding my desk the previous year jabbering away in normal voices.

Boys pretty much the same. They are ruled solely by what they get. If there is candy or fruit roll-up they will try to speak English till the cows come home. They also like to talk and be loud.

Third year: I only have have experience with boys. They are okay some are absolute gangsters. I don't let them sleep or listen to music and they simply glare at me and I ignore them. The ones that are interested are a joy. Sort of junior adults and they are inquisitive and ask questions. They like to talk and I have no trouble hearing them. I wonder what 3rd year girls are like. Some of the boys don't bother to come to class and the poor Korean co-teacher has to hunt them down. Usually hiding in empty class room asleep. Oh my school is one of the good schools.

Jade

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[jessie-b]

My friend back home teaches middle school and she said eighth graders were the least willing to participate. Lots of eye rolling.

[jeffkim1972]

Probably because your class atmosphere is more like an FBI interrogation session rather than a comfortable chat session.

You need to bring everyone's guard down first, forget that you are teaching English.

[kimchi story]

I am a high school teacher who spent a year in the big K teaching middle school. The truth is, they do clam up as they get older. It's a payoff - you can have chatty middle schoolers who require constant regulation or silent high schoolers who can self-edit. I'm teaching both back home now and I'm not entirely sure which I prefer. Oddly enough, my worst students are Koreans (which is a bonus for me). Mexicans, now they can have fun...

[Mary-Jane]

It's so sad to think that my chatty elementary and middle schoolers might turn morose and silent in a few years, unwilling to express their opinions or relax even when they can... (I mean, unable to even say yay or nay to free pizza without exchanging nervous glances??? Sheesh!)

It's been really useful to hear other people's experiences and advice. I feel I tried for many lessons to get them to 'relax' and talk, but in the end, they still wouldn't communicate and we ended up wasting a lot of time. In the future I should just let them have it their way and feed them mostly continuous written work and clear instructions. Provide them with multiple choice, rote answers from the start so they can at least say something.

Part of the problem might be the small class sizes. In my hagwon I currently don't have more than 3 high schoolers per class, so they must feel pretty conspicuous.

Sigh... nearly come to the end of the course and have just marked their latest tests... results not encouraging... I should have known they wouldn't ask me for revision help...

[Ronald]

Military shuts them up.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

The testing system may have a lot to do with it. Most of the test questions students get at high school are grammar and reading comprehension questions, with a few listening questions. At present, there are no questions that require speaking and rarely any that require writing. So, there's no instrumental motivation whatsoever to learn speaking and students think it's not important to their English education. If you can convince your students that this will change as they become adults and have to pass iBT TOIEC exams that require speaking, perhaps they might see more reason why they have to learn how to communicate and not just understand.