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Intrepid Voyage
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:48 am Post subject: Are Housing Deposits Illegal? |
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| Just wondering if anyone has a definitive answer on this one... |
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JiH
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:58 am Post subject: YES |
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In a nutshell: Yes but you do it anyway.
At the Gyeonggi-do Education Conference for native speakers this was brought up and they admitted that yes it was illegal but at the same time you sign the contract stipulating that there is a housing deposit, so you are aware of it and agree to it if you sign it.
Welcome to the oddness that is Korea. |
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yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Illegal? No. Stupid to let them? Yes. |
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garykasparov
Joined: 27 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: Re: YES |
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| JiH wrote: |
In a nutshell: Yes but you do it anyway.
At the Gyeonggi-do Education Conference for native speakers this was brought up and they admitted that yes it was illegal but at the same time you sign the contract stipulating that there is a housing deposit, so you are aware of it and agree to it if you sign it.
Welcome to the oddness that is Korea. |
Who said it was illegal at the Gyeonggi-do Education Conference?
Last edited by garykasparov on Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| no it's not illegal. there are some hagwons that do this mainly because it ensures against people pulling runners, or sometimes they're just cheap or looking to screw u over at the end of your contract with fictional apt damage, etc. |
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rhinocharge64
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmm it's illegal !!! end of. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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It is illegal if they take the deposit out of your pay without your consent. If however you agree to it through a contractual clause it is a legal deduction.
The deposit is a double edged sword really. It can be a genuine security blanket for a school who wants to protect its investment (the appartment) or it can be used by shady schools as a way to cheat teachers...
I can fully understand why schools would require a deposit after what I have seen in my time here. I can also understand why teachers are sometimes hestitant to agree to a deposit.
It is up to you to figure out the situation at your school and to act reasonably. |
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ardis
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I never even entertained the idea that housing deposits could be illegal. I paid one here through SMOE and I paid them all the time back home in Washington, D.C. (for about the same cost--$300-$500) |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| If you sign on the dotted line, you're agreeing to what is in the contract. You have no way to change your mind outside of leaving the job |
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yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
It is illegal if they take the deposit out of your pay without your consent. If however you agree to it through a contractual clause it is a legal deduction.
The deposit is a double edged sword really. It can be a genuine security blanket for a school who wants to protect its investment (the appartment) or it can be used by shady schools as a way to cheat teachers...
I can fully understand why schools would require a deposit after what I have seen in my time here. I can also understand why teachers are sometimes hestitant to agree to a deposit.
It is up to you to figure out the situation at your school and to act reasonably. |
What have you seen? People doing runners? Don't use that again. That's no reason for a housing deposit. |
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dethe
Joined: 01 May 2005
Location: Anyang
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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It is illegal. The only thing employers can take out of you pay is taxes, insurance and pensions. All other deductions are illegal.
As for the Gyunggi-training thing. In May 2007 the person said "Yes, it is illegal but it ok." That was her answer.
And it is not a housing deposit. You pay no matter who provides housing you or your school. It is a we don't want you leaving early deposit. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| What have you seen? People doing runners? Don't use that again. That's no reason for a housing deposit. |
Ah..yes it can be a damn good reason for a good school that gets the shaft from some idiotic immature teacher who runs into the night because he/she is unhappy living here and is not mature and professional enough to quite and pay back airfare....
To clarify for you yingman...the school owns the appartment. They want to protect that property and can ask a security deposit from the teacher in order to cover damages or a teacher leaving with unpaid bills (happens more than you know buddy).
If the teacher is not some moron and is a normal person who cleans up a bit, no worries, the deposit is returned at contracts end....
On the flip side, some bad schools use the deposit badly and this is why initial research is paramount prior to signing a contract. |
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yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| What have you seen? People doing runners? Don't use that again. That's no reason for a housing deposit. |
Ah..yes it can be a damn good reason for a good school that gets the shaft from some idiotic immature teacher who runs into the night because he/she is unhappy living here and is not mature and professional enough to quite and pay back airfare....
To clarify for you yingman...the school owns the appartment. They want to protect that property and can ask a security deposit from the teacher in order to cover damages or a teacher leaving with unpaid bills (happens more than you know buddy).
If the teacher is not some moron and is a normal person who cleans up a bit, no worries, the deposit is returned at contracts end....
On the flip side, some bad schools use the deposit badly and this is why initial research is paramount prior to signing a contract. |
People are free to roam the world. They can come and go as they please. A job is not a prison. A housing deposit it for damages. Nothing else. Not for runners. If people want to run, they run. If a boss wants to fire you, he fires you. 99.999999999999% of the time, people run because of foul treatment by their employers. It's just the nature of Koreans to treat employees terribly. Right at the go ALL of them will try to cheat you. It's par for the course.
That's why it's stupid to pay a deposit. I didn't, however, say they can't do it. You do, however, have to give them permission to. Has to be included in your contract. It's like if you work for some places and get deducted on your first check for a uniform. They take it out of your check and you're informed of this when you sign on.
You keep talking about runners as if it's the teachers that are the problem. Pull your head out of your sphincter. Of course every field of work is going to have people that quit on a dime. Yes, young people get homesick. And irresponsible people exist. But gee. Come on. Hagwon owners outweight these and the like in fault 100 to 1.
ANYTHING your employer does to cheat you is a good enough reason to run.
But, yeah. Unpaid bills can be a problem. Korea cuts your electricity, etc. off though if you're 2 months behind. And your boss can find out quite easily if your bills are or aren't being paid. He can proactively take measures. The odd case may exist where someone gets paid, takes off with no notice, and slides past paying 2 or 3 months of bills. Or his employee smashes holes in the walls, tears out the sinks, and sh1ts on the bed.
But you keep on with this "runners are a big problem in Korea." Big bad foreigner problem.
I think not. You sound just like the Korean media and the xenophobes. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: |
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A job is not a prison ying but a contract has obligations..from both sides: employer and employee.
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| You keep talking about runners as if it's the teachers that are the problem. |
No I do not.
I provided an example. Sorry you cannot grasp this.
I also said bad schools use the deposit as a cheating measure.
You need glasses or something?
I never said runners are a big problem in Korea..those are your words being put into my mouth buddy....
I said some teachers do run for no good reason and shaft good employers...get a grip ying and start reading before you respond like some angry little boy who jsut got grounded.
I have worked here for a while and I have seen bad schools shaft good teachers and bad teachers shaft good schools. One story gets more publicity: bad schools. this is good if it exposes those bad schools.
But, wether you like it or not ying, it happens more often that you think that bad teachers shaft their employers.
It certainly is not a 100-1 scenario where poor little westerner is always cheated...again..get a grip buddy.
I especially love that 99.999999% figure...another of your sociological research papers there Dr Ying?
How many jobs have you had here? Since that number is more than 1, you must know that bad teachers or irresponsible teachers are here and not in a proportion of 1 for every 100 bad schools...
You must also know that these bad teachers are here because of low selection requirements and often a faulty recruitment process that does not really check if a person is suitable to teach abroad...or to teach at all....
You then get a miss-match: a school looking for teacher through faulty rectuiting and screening and often a westerner who wants to travel and earn coin and who has no experience teaching and usually no desire to really teach...he is happy to get a job with free airfare and housing (understandable because that is the product being sold to him/her).
You get a bad recipe then.
But you can go right ahead and keep that 99.999999999999999999999% and 100-1 figure going...others here have experience that says otherwise....
Have a good evening ying... |
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yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
A job is not a prison ying but a contract has obligations..from both sides: employer and employee.
| Quote: |
| You keep talking about runners as if it's the teachers that are the problem. |
No I do not.
I provided an example. Sorry you cannot grasp this.
I also said bad schools use the deposit as a cheating measure.
You need glasses or something?
I never said runners are a big problem in Korea..those are your words being put into my mouth buddy....
I said some teachers do run for no good reason and shaft good employers...get a grip ying and start reading before you respond like some angry little boy who jsut got grounded.
I have worked here for a while and I have seen bad schools shaft good teachers and bad teachers shaft good schools. One story gets more publicity: bad schools. this is good if it exposes those bad schools.
But, wether you like it or not ying, it happens more often that you think that bad teachers shaft their employers.
It certainly is not a 100-1 scenario where poor little westerner is always cheated...again..get a grip buddy.
I especially love that 99.999999% figure...another of your sociological research papers there Dr Ying?
How many jobs have you had here? Since that number is more than 1, you must know that bad teachers or irresponsible teachers are here and not in a proportion of 1 for every 100 bad schools...
You must also know that these bad teachers are here because of low selection requirements and often a faulty recruitment process that does not really check if a person is suitable to teach abroad...or to teach at all....
You then get a miss-match: a school looking for teacher through faulty rectuiting and screening and often a westerner who wants to travel and earn coin and who has no experience teaching and usually no desire to really teach...he is happy to get a job with free airfare and housing (understandable because that is the product being sold to him/her).
You get a bad recipe then.
But you can go right ahead and keep that 99.999999999999999999999% and 100-1 figure going...others here have experience that says otherwise....
Have a good evening ying... |
Go Homey, go! 
You know what?
I don't really care. I don't pay a housing deposit. That's all that counts. |
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