Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Barking Mad Lord Snapcase]

For the purpose of this poll, "encouragement" could mean something as simple as saying "Yes, you should", or "I would run in your position", or "If you don't like it, LEAVE!". All three messages are essentially saying the same thing.

So, how many of you are pro-runner?

[as-ian]

I am anti-runner. While some circumstances may drive some to this action, it gives others a bad image. To that effect, i would say to them to just fight it out (not literally).

[tigerbluekitty]

Who would discourage someone from pulling a runner besides,

1) Recruiters

2) Hagwon owners

3) Students

4) Students' parents


HMmmMMmmmmmm............ Who else.... I wonder...

[hogwonguy1979]

i've encouraged and helped people do it when circumstances warrented it and would do it again

[sadsac]

I've assisted one friend in 7 years, but the circumstances were extreme and it was more a matter of personal safety than the need to bolt.

[newteacher]

[Homer]

Yeah tigerbluekitty...that was pretty obvious...

You could ad other teachers who always pay the price when someone runs for a no good reason....

But,

I would not ecourage a runner because it helps no one at all. This is unless it was the very last resort and other legal means had been exhausted before.

Then if the person runs (for a good reason) it is hoped they file a complaint with the labor board or with some other organisations to make sure the next teacher does not get cheated. Otherwise, a run solves nothing and if anything, makes the problems worse.

[chris_J2]

It's encouraging to see that so far, the majority don't support runners.

Some reasons for this (option 1 in the poll):

* It damages the individual teacher's reputation
* It indirectly damages the reputation of all foreign ESL teachers
* It damages the reputation of the country of origin of the runner
* It damages the reputation of the runner's recruitment agent

[Barking Mad Lord Snapcase]

But if that is the case, then don't you think this forum is partly to blame with all the "If you don't like it, LEAVE!" mentality? This is only compounded by the fact that these sentiments are directed at posters (sometimes newbies, sometimes not) who are already experiencing problems.

[tigerbluekitty]

I haven't encouraged a midnight run yet, but would if the teacher wasn't getting treated well.

Don't you guys get paid for overtime work? Is it worth the extra pay?

[Homer]

IF a teacher is not getting trated well...he or she can very well take his boss to the labor board. That will at the very least have a potential positive effect as the employer might change his ways when faced with penalties. Or, give proper notice and quit. There are many, many options before pulling a runner.

The fact teachers get paid for the OT has no bearing on the situation at all tiger because after that teacher runs, its not just the OT its what the employer does as a response, especially if the teacher ran for no good reason (it happens often enough).

[Unposter]

We often encourage new teahers here to bring extra money just in case there is some kind of problem, better prepared than not, and problems often happen.

Yet, we rarely, I don't think ever, say that about Hakwon owners. The fact is many hakwons are run as "Mom and Pop" businesses without sufficient capital, business plans or any business know how.

When someone runs off without putting in their time, the hakwon looses the $1,000 or so that it cost to bring that person over plus all the exorbitant (sp?) recruiter's fees. This is a serious loss to the hakwon.

Yet, there were always be at least 10% (totally scientifically proven) of the population that will come over and within the first month realize they have made a horrible mistake.

Now, there will be those who say that the teacher should refund all this money back to the hakwon.

But, I think the Hakwon should have just done their homework better. And, they should have an emergency set aside of cash for just such circumstances otherwise they should not be allowed to go into business.

Business means risk. If you are not willing to take on the risk, then you don't deserve the proftits when they are made.

Of course, if every newbie just listen to the advice here at this website, there would never be a midnight run because everyone would know exactly what it was they were getting into when they came to Korea to teach English.

Ahh...Utopia!

[PeterDragon]

The three parties that stand to be truly tangibly hurt when someone pulls a runner are the school, the teacher, and the recruiter. Thus a runner is best pulled under the following criteria:

1) The school won't honor its obligations. (If they break contract, why can't you?)
2) The teacher accepts and understands the consequences of running.
3) The recruiter won't help the teacher a better job/get what was promised to him.

I almost pulled a runner back in late June. My school was not honoring anything in my contract properly, any loss of enrollment was being blamed on me, and the filth, squalor and lack of safety in the school itself bordered on child endangerment. (Criteria # 1 met.) I understood I wouldn't be able to go back to Korea, but had some savings and my old job waiting for me back home, with my old apartment still vacant. (Criteria # 2 met). I called my recruiter and told him that, at all costs, I had to get out of my current contract, or the school had to clean up its act. My recruiter told me glibly that there was no chance of the school cleaning up its act, and that he'd prefer to just get me to a new school. He also pledged never to do business with that school again. (Criteria # 3 NOT met.) In several more weeks, I had a new public school job and had left my old contract. Had my recruiter not been so accommodating, I would have ran.

In summation, I think that more often than not, the REAL people to blame for runners are unscrupulous recruiters and greedy schools. I have no sympathy for people who treat us like property to be bought, sold and exploited. If a runner bites them in the @$$, that's justice, IMHO.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[PGF]