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dutchy pink
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Location: Incheon
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: the "marionette" debate, rudy, fred and... |
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My God. Could you actually vote for any of these people?
If I was forced at gunpoint, I would vote for Romney or R. Paul.
But, if the gun was in my hand, I shoot myself first. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: |
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This begs the question:
What type of leadership do you support? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
This begs the question:
What type of leadership do you support? |
How exactly does it "beg" the question? 
Shill puppets indeed. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| But, if the gun was in my hand, I shoot myself first. |
In my opinion, having RP as president would be a fate worse than death. |
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Funkdafied
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Location: In Da House
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Well Im a liberal who happens to think that Ron Paul would be the best thing to happen to america sinse, oh, the writing of the constitution. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| How can you support a "libertarian" that is anti-abortion? I suppose that's why he's a Republican, but still... |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| How can you support a "libertarian" that is anti-abortion? I suppose that's why he's a Republican, but still... |
Again we see your inability to understand opinions that you have not encountered yet.
Ron Paul believes that the fetus is a human life. Ron Paul believes that humans have the right not to be killed. Ergo, Ron Paul does not support abortion.
I disagree with him, but I respect his position. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:48 am Post subject: |
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Read before you respond.
Ron Paul is entitled to his opinion, but it is the antithesis of libertarianism to think that one person's opinion, ie: fetus' are living humans and deserve the right to life, should trump another, especially in regards to the governments role of regulating that opinion.
I suppose, just read period. Learning is fun. |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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most people who criticize the libertarian anti-abortion position don't really understand the argument, which is:
1. people have the right to live without interference from others, within reason
2. killing someone is an unreasonable infringement upon someone's life
3. a fetus is a person
4. therefore, killing a fetus is wrong
how does this contradict libertarian principles? a libertarian can disagree with this argument by saying that the fetus isn't really a person, but that doesn't mean that the other guy isn't a libertarian!
anti-abortionists are not saying that the life of the fetus trumps the life of the mother, rather that both are human lives, and deserve protection under the law! |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Funkdafied wrote: |
| Well Im a liberal who happens to think that Ron Paul would be the best thing to happen to america sinse, oh, the writing of the constitution. |
i&i - screw the phony left-right nonsense, it's too hyped & dishonest; let one instead always vote with their conscience.
As i see it RON PAUL's "3rd way" clearly offers a healthy & viable package for a genuine alternative course in better shaping America's future.
Either way, you can hardly go wrong with widespread "populist" appeal  |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| ernie wrote: |
most people who criticize the libertarian anti-abortion position don't really understand the argument, which is:
1. people have the right to live without interference from others, within reason
2. killing someone is an unreasonable infringement upon someone's life
3. a fetus is a person
4. therefore, killing a fetus is wrong
how does this contradict libertarian principles? a libertarian can disagree with this argument by saying that the fetus isn't really a person, but that doesn't mean that the other guy isn't a libertarian!
anti-abortionists are not saying that the life of the fetus trumps the life of the mother, rather that both are human lives, and deserve protection under the law! |
I disagree. I am fairly libertarian in my political views, and I don't see how regulating another person's body, which is what anti-abortion legislation is all about, can jive with libertarian ideals. The anti-abortion position you've illustrated isn't the libertarian anti-abortion position, it's just the anti-abortion position. You have every right to personally be anti-abortion, but you have no right to force that view on others.
I am personally anti-abortion, due primarily to a little falling out I had with a girlfriend in college, but as much as you could argue that a fetus is a living human with rights the opposite argument, that a fetus is a parasite and plucking it out is not different than removing a tick or leech. The argument is not a politcal one, it's a moral one, and libertarians should not want to legislate morality.
The courts have decided this issue. It should be left at that. In a libertarian democracy the courts would theoretically be the only regulatory body with any teeth. |
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