Korean Job Discussion Forums

[waterbaby]

I have a student who is 8 years old and in a class of mostly 6 year olds. She's been coming to my hagwon for over a year now but has made very little progress. I only see her 3 times a week for 30 mins in a class of 15 or so kids. She also attends math classes and Korean classes at the hagwon and despite her lack of progress, her mum keeps sending her along. She's a nice girl, always pleasant and smiling, a little reluctant to join in games as she's shy when it comes to speaking English.

We put her into a slightly higher level class, hoping it would give her some confidence and there are a few kids closer to her age. She did ABC stuff for over a year and now she's working with text books & reading bookds. (Up and Away 2) She seems to enjoy coming to class more now and is much more enthusiastic and can finally ask things like, "May I get a drink of water please?" (bliss bliss bliss)

We've recently just started weekly spelling tests. The kids are given 5 words on Monday to memorise and I test them on Friday. Very simple works like run, do , has, can ... most of the kids get 100% every time, except for Penny. She puts the most bizarre letter combinations together I've ever seen

run = etlp .... or something like that.

She can't read, but she can copy things off the board and her handwriting is very good and neat. I don't know much about dyslexia but I think she wouldn't be able to do these things so well if she was dyslexic. It might be just something as simple as she hasn't learned the English phonics yet. Hmmm, but I've seen her write the words out 10 times each, perfectly, but she can't memorise them or write them down, even when I sound them out.

I don't have any teacher training, so I'm feeling desperately out of the loop on what to do with the kids that are having problems or even what clues to look for to guess what kind of learning problem she's having.

Does anyone have any advice for what to do with Penny?

[crazylemongirl]

Ok, my ed psych days are far behind me, but dyslexics generally have trouble turning what they hear or see into written form. I'm pretty mild but I have heaps of problems with b,d,p,q e and 3, whether I'm copying or listening. So I come up some bizzare combinations myself. But we're not all the same.

Is she associating sounds with the written words? I find that a lot of kids here, can't associate A with A sounds and so on (if my class is having trouble spelling a word we break it up and when they hear (b) they think ball and write B). There's a few kids that I'm working on at the moment, just sneaking a few minutes in where I can while the other kids play a game.

CLG

[anae]

Waterbaby,

Can you find out how she is doing with written Korean? Maybe you could get her to write something in Korean and ask a Korean for feedback. It is sometimes quite difficult to tell what the problem is in a second language.

Let me know what you find out and they more concrete examples the better. I have access to books on learning disabilities and the like from the Ed library at the university, and would be happy to find some techniques or tips for you.

[waterbaby]

Thanks CLG and Anae... I'll ask the Korean teachers tomorrow how Penny's doing in their classes. I know she's not doing well, but I'll see if I can get some decent feedback about her Korean language skills.

My big fear is that if she really does have a learning disorder, how will I ever convince the powers that be (wongjongnim & her parents) to get her tested and the right sort of help.

I know I'm way out of depth here - but I feel bad for her because she's struggling so much and she has to go to math & Korean classes 5 days a week and english 3 times a week and struggle more

[Saxiif]

Can she read/write competantly in Korean?

[crazylemongirl]

I feel sorry for her. It's hard enough getting tested and proper help in some of the more 'enlightened' countries (I didn't get tested until I was 14 and only got a masters student to oversee my extra tution in my last year of high school due to funding constraints.) I wouldn't want to be a dyslexic kid here.

CLG

[ratslash]

yeah, i have the same kind of thing with of my girls.

the class is the slowest class at the hagwon i teach at. they do try, but they just don't get it. they are 12 year olds, all nice kids.

i've given up trying to get them to work out the answers to the questions in the books so i write the answers on the board and they copy them. all the kids manage to copy my words, apart from one of them who just makes up the bizarrest letter combinations. pretty much like penny seems to be doing.

i would love to know how she does in korean language classes coz the simple copying of words should be easy for most children, but now i am thinking whether she does have a dyslexic-ish problem. but like someone said, it is hard to tell when a person is writing a foreign language.

what do koreans know/think about dyslexia? is it another thing that they sweep under the carpet and pretend doesn't exist? or do the act upon it if they think a child may be having this problem?

[ajuma]

One sad thing about Korea is that they don't recognize learning disabilities. The best (only!) thing you can do is give her as much praise and encouragement as you can. She's probably gotten as much "bad karma" from her Korean teachers. She needs praise for even the smallest improvement.

[hadeshorn]

I have a kid in my kindy class and I was totally not looking forward to him coming back.

Obviously the parents want the best for this kid. However he is soooooo stupid. He is a nice kid but sometimes I want to throttle him because nothing sinks in.

Today after phonics I get them to copy each word we did 5x. The words are right in front of them. The other kids have no problems. Like there is the super Genius Jason who does it all and numbers the words for me so its easy to count. Then its a gradual slope downwards in quality. But the kids get the idea of what they have to do.

Then there is Tony. He looks at the book. Then stares around the room. I point to the book again. I even write the first word for him. CAR. I point and mimic him doing the same. He looks at me.. Looks at the paper. Looks around.

So in the same time that Jason has written the whole thing. Tony has done 2 words. One is E2K and ETP.

I point this out to my supervisor and my supervisor is pretty cool. I ask if he can go down a level. BTW these kids are six doing Magic Time 2 and Up and Away in Phonics 1. She says we cant send him down a level as his parents are poor and he has been going here a long time and he should stay with his current group otherwise it will seem like a waste of money.

I nod and understand as the school has a bottom line to maintain. The school however isnt a money grubbing school as it expands money on the number computer room where I teach typing lessons and computer lessons as well as the new huge library.

It is heartbreaking sometimes to have this kid tho in my class who is struggling and the parents are expecting more. Its quite amusing when we have functions and so forth and he comes to class in a mini tux. It looks garish as anything but very amusing.

[eamo]

I have a couple of kids at the moment (10-12 years old) whose slowness could only be explained by learning difficulties.

Problem was, I wasn't told. I had to find out for myself. So at first I just thought they were extremely dumb.

They look at me, they seem to be listening. But, when it comes to writing or speaking the answer they have no idea even when ALL the others know.

I asked my partner Korean teachers and got a vague agreement that they were very slow, but, no recognition of a real mental problem.

Then, and here is the killer, I got instructions through the Korean teacher that the very slow boy should be worked harder than normal and be treated with a firm hand!!

I totally refused of course.

The best thing I could think of was to buddy each of them up with a good student and basically let the good student guide them through the lesson. Not satisfactory but the best that can be done in the 'learn a lot quickly' hagwon situation.

[rapier]

This is my 3rd hakwon now and each school has had at least one kid with obvious learning difficulties, that needs special attention and help. Either they freak out or have fits in the corner, or cannot get the most basic things. I don't have time to spend personally coaching them, so i generally have to neglect them for the sake of teaching the class as a whole.
Koreans don't seem to recognise such problem kids or have contingencies for how to help them. In any case, they're making money by just lumping them in with the rest, so who cares?Nobody.

[crazylemongirl]

"Korean children don't have learning diffculties, they just need to work harder"

Direct quote from one of the korean teachers on one of the kids that I know is having problems.

CLG

[waterbaby]

Update on Penny...

She's not having any trouble reading and writing Korean. Her Maths & Korean has also really improved and her math & Korean hagwon teachers are very pleased with her progress. Another student who attends the same elementary school as Penny says that she's really smart. It looks like it's only English she's having trouble with.

I'll do what I can. A friend back in Oz who has been a primary school teacher for 11 years suggested that rather than giving her a different task to the rest of the class, just lower the benchmark for her... ask her to get two right answers for the test (2 right answers = 100%) instead of 5, do written work with her - I do one answer, she does the next... just try and make her feel successful ... so I'll give it a go.

I don't know how "real" teachers cope with 28+ students in their class. I find it soooo hard with just 15 - how to be across what's going on with each student. I guess the language barrier is that, a barrier. And in the bigger picture, I spend so little time with them.

Wish I didn't care so much - would make it a lot easier for me

[some waygug-in]

[EH]

I'm now a bilingual speech-language pathologist, but a few years ago I was a hagwon teacher trying to figure out how the heck to teach the few kids in my classes who just didn't "get it." So I know what you guys are talking about and how frustrating it is.

Here are some things you might like to know:

1) It is possible to be dyslexic in English but not have the same symptoms appear in Korean. This is because English and Korean have different writing systems, requiring different cognitive processes to read and write them.

2) Dyslexia does not just mean letter reversals. Letter reversals are common among dyslexics, but other parts of the problem may include: difficulty with sound-symbol correspondences (phonics), unclear or imprecise speaking/understanding of vowel sounds, and difficulty remembering common letter sequences needed for spelling (othographic knowledge). Each person is different, and there may be other learning issues involved as well.

3) Korean kids are NOT given universal routine hearing screenings. That means that some really brilliant kids are assumed to be stupid because their undiagnosed hearing loss only lets them catch some of what is being said around them. A mild to moderate hearing loss is not always obvious, but can make it very difficult to learn a foreign language. Plus, a lot of kids have temporary hearing loss due to ear infections. Always assume that someone in your class may have difficulty hearing you. Make your classroom quieter (close windows, sit kids away from open doors or noisy heaters, etc.), and always let them see your full front-view face when you speak.

Unfortunately, there's no way to get kids tested for dyslexia in Korea, since the tests do not currently exist for hangul. But there are some large hospitals and private clinics which can test for other communication disorders (hearing loss, specific language disorder, stuttering, articulation disorders like lisping, etc.) Therapy is also available in those locations. Therapy is not available in the public schools, and insurance generally will not cover the costs either, so it's up to the parents to foot the bill.

If you have a kid in your class who seems to have some sort of communication disorder, here are some ideas:
1) the kid needs extra time, repetition, and individual attention.
2) make the room quiet. Keep your face visible when talking.
3) good phonics instruction is often helpful for dyslexics.
4) make sure his other teachers and the wonjangnim know about your suspicions. See if you can collaborate to make a better learning environment for the kid. If not, at least you're covering your own butt for when the parents come back and ask why their little darling isn't fluent in English yet.
5) tell the parents... if you're really sure there's a problem. Keep in mind that there's not much they can do about a learning disability in Korea, and that they are unlikely to be receptive to what you say. Yes, they deserve to know. But think carefully before you broach the subject.
6) learn more.
International Dyslexia Association www.InterDys.org
American Speech-Language Hearing Association www.ASHA.org
info sheets about hearing loss for ESL teachers email me at [email protected]

Good luck.
-EH

P.S. a pediatric neurologist I was talking to recently had this advice: almost all kids perform better in school situations when they have more than eight hours of sleep a night and eat a snack every two hours (yeah, TWO hours. Even older kids. I was surprised). In a hagwon you can't do much about sleep deprivation, but a small nutritious snack at the beginning of each class might be a good idea. Maybe a few grapes each, a chestnut or two, or a couple kimbab pieces. It'll help their brains work better, and probably make you more popular in the process.