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Babylon Rises Again
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: Babylon Rises Again Reply with quote

Isn't there some BIBLE prophecy about this?

i.e. BABYLON rising again?

New GIANT U.S. Embassy in Iraq cloaked in mystery
Baghdad locale, slated to be completed in 2007, to be largest of its kind

Construction cranes loom above the site of the new U.S. Embassy being built in Baghdad. The embassy will sit on 104 acres, six times larger than the United Nations compound in New York and two-thirds the acreage of Washington��s National Mall.



Updated: 5:45 p.m. ET April 14, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The fortress-like compound rising beside the Tigris River here will be the largest of its kind in the world, the size of Vatican City, with the population of a small town, its own defense force, self-contained power and water, and a precarious perch at the heart of Iraq��s turbulent future.

The new U.S. Embassy also seems as cloaked in secrecy as the ministate in Rome.

��We can��t talk about it. Security reasons,�� Roberta Rossi, a spokeswoman at the current embassy, said when asked for information about the project.

A British tabloid even told readers the location was being kept secret — news that would surprise Baghdadis who for months have watched the forest of construction cranes at work across the winding Tigris, at the very center of their city and within easy mortar range of anti-U.S. forces in the capital, though fewer explode there these days.

The embassy complex — 21 buildings on 104 acres, according to a U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee report — is taking shape on riverside parkland in the fortified ��Green Zone,�� just east of al-Samoud, a former palace of Saddam Hussein��s, and across the road from the building where the ex-dictator is now on trial.

The Republican Palace, where U.S. Embassy functions are temporarily housed in cubicles among the chandelier-hung rooms, is less than a mile away in the 4-square-mile zone, an enclave of American and Iraqi government offices and lodgings ringed by miles of concrete barriers.

5,500 employees at the embassy
The 5,500 Americans and Iraqis working at the embassy, almost half listed as security, are far more numerous than at any other U.S. mission worldwide. They rarely venture out into the ��Red Zone,�� that is, violence-torn Iraq.

This huge American contingent at the center of power has drawn criticism.

��The presence of a massive U.S. embassy — by far the largest in the world — co-located in the Green Zone with the Iraqi government is seen by Iraqis as an indication of who actually exercises power in their country,�� the International Crisis Group, a European-based research group, said in one of its periodic reports on Iraq.

State Department spokesman Justin Higgins defended the size of the embassy, old and new, saying it��s indicative of the work facing the United States here.

��It��s somewhat self-evident that there��s going to be a fairly sizable commitment to Iraq by the U.S. government in all forms for several years,�� he said in Washington.

Higgins noted that large numbers of non-diplomats work at the mission — hundreds of military personnel and dozens of FBI agents, for example, along with representatives of the Agriculture, Commerce and other U.S. federal departments.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319798/
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

post 1975 Vietnam, the russians, vietnamese had access to warehouses of US military equipment, planes, tanks, etc. even cryptograph machines. I would hope that if america does lose this conflict that they make sure they dont leave anything for the enemy this time. They are obviously more confident than than the newspapers state, that they will be in for the long haul. Some of the super base/fortresses they are building sound interesting as well.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Isn't there some BIBLE prophecy about this?

i.e. BABYLON rising again?


Far from rising again, I think Babylon pretty much ends up getting the crap kicked out of it in The Book Of Revelation.

And anyway, it's a bit of a stretch to describe the construction of an embassy as "Babylon rising again". I mean, it's just one building.
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riley



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: where creditors can find me

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I mean, it's just one building.


Not to be a nit picking dick but,
from the article
Quote:
The embassy complex — 21 buildings on 104 acres


True though, Igotthisguitar is melodramatic.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riley:

Quote:
Quote:
I mean, it's just one building.


Not to be a nit picking *beep* but,
from the article
Quote:
The embassy complex — 21 buildings on 104 acres


Thanks for the correction.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

riley wrote:

True though, Igotthisguitar is melodramatic.

No, no- I think for once he has it right: this is the clearest sign yet that the end times are near. I'm pretty certain Nostradamus wrote about it. And of course you know who likes to build big fancy buildings- Freemasons!

Shocked
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you really think the iraqis are going to like a massive symbol of American occupation planted in the heart of their city?

They would do well to dominate the world a bit less blatantly.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do you really think the iraqis are going to like a massive symbol of American occupation planted in the heart of their city?

They would do well to dominate the world a bit less blatantly.


I'd be interested to see some drawings of what it's going to look like when it's finished.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulsajo wrote:
riley wrote:

True though, Igotthisguitar is melodramatic.

No, no- I think for once he has it right: this is the clearest sign yet that the end times are near.

Um, actually, it's a sign that the Bush Administration has no intention of leaving Iraq to the Iraqis. Ever.

And Bulsajo, check the link. This is not one of igtg's usual ones to some wierd saucer-cult source. It's pure MSM (MainStream media) or in this case, MSN ... you wanna make fun of the poster, fine, but while we're at it, why not look at the stuff that is really going on?


Last edited by The Bobster on Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:

I'd be interested to see what it's going to look like when it's finished.


Probably a smoking pile of rubble. make a nice target. Anyone know how many buildings are blown to pieces in baghdad every month?
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:

And Bulsajo, check the link. This is not one of igtg's usual ones to some wierd saucer-cult source. It's pure MSM (MainStream media) or in this case, MSN ... you wanna make fun of the poster, fine, but while we're at it, why not look at the stuff that is really going on?

What?!? You think I don't look at the stuff that is going on?
I've got no issues with the link or the info, but IGTG's bombastic apocalyptic spin on it.

Bobster, don't tell me that I need IGTG to put his own silly spin on MSNBC articles in order to understand what's going in Iraq- you do yourself a disservice by suggesting that.

I would hope that the US plans to have an embassy for some time to come in Iraq, and for now a complex which helps make it possible for the administration of the country to actually take place- while it is unfortunate that past US decisions have led to the neccessity of building such a massive overbearing fortress-like complex- is, at the end of the day, a positive event.

The US wrecked many opportunities to rebuild this country through poor planning, lack of foresight and fecklessness, so yes I expect the US to remain in Iraq for quite some time to come.

And I suspect that more than a few lefties would be happy that Iraq is left in squalor and hopelessness as long as it proves their theories that their domestic adversaries are satan incarnate. Bobster, I hope you are not one of those.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
On the other hand wrote:

I'd be interested to see what it's going to look like when it's finished.


Probably a smoking pile of rubble. make a nice target. Anyone know how many buildings are blown to pieces in baghdad every month?

From the article:

Security, overseen by U.S. Marines, will be extraordinary: setbacks and perimeter no-go areas that will be especially deep, structures reinforced to 2.5-times the standard, and five high-security entrances, plus an emergency entrance-exit, the Senate report says.


Sad that it's come to this, but it's hard to work on re-building a country when you're constantly living in fear of your life (I'm sure this is as true for many Americans, even in the green zone) and constantly getting ready to duck under your desk.

Look- whether or not it's this admin or the next, whether or not you think the invasion of Iraq was justified or not, the fact remains that there is important work to be done, and such a complex will help ensure that it gets done.

Is it overkill?
Well, I'm not an architect, and I've never been to Bagdad so I can't certainly can't say, but considering how badly everything was originally underestimated it's not so surprising that they are now tacking in the opposite direction.
And I will say this much:
It certainly is interesting to see how some folks here immediately jump on everything without thinking things through and put the worst possible spin on it.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulsajo wrote:
And I suspect that more than a few lefties would be happy that Iraq is left in squalor and hopelessness as long as it proves their theories that their domestic adversaries are satan incarnate. Bobster, I hope you are not one of those.

Actually, these days I'm more worried about the folks back home in MY country being left in squalor and hopelessness by this debacle.

I read today that Bush has turned a budget in the black into the largest deficit ever amassed by all previous presidents combined. Later presidents will, of course, have to reverse the tax cuts Bush gave to his wealthiest friends, or else thy will continue the trend of making our country dependent on Japan and China to continue buying our Treaury Bonds while completely gutting all social services ... except the ones granted to "faith-based" groups, of course, with the proper political / ideological affiliation.

I got no reason to wish the Iraqi people any harm, but assuming their previous dictator was such a cruel madman, I figure it's up to them to decide how cruel and how mad their next one is going to be - as for me, I'm looking at what is best for MY country.

And what is best for MY country, Bulsajo, is to end this thing. End it now, and end it forever and for good.

I will refrain from my usual comments about Canadians with little at stake in all of this promoting the perpetuation of a war that does MY country no good at all ... and yours no harm.

I will refrain, after simply noting that this is exactly where we are : me, an American who wants what is best for my country - and you, a non-American who wants to argue what my country ought to be doing.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:

And what is best for MY country, Bulsajo, is to end this thing. End it now, and end it forever and for good.

But Bobster, the govt of your country created this mess. That can't be wished away. A unilateral pull out will not end it.

Quote:
I will refrain from my usual comments about Canadians with little at stake in all of this promoting the perpetuation of a war that does MY country no good at all ... and yours no harm.

That you cannot see how this affects more than just your country is at best myopic and at worst willfully ignorant. you can't simply disconnetc things which are already interconnected. The UK, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, and india to name just a few are all affected by events in Iraq. Bobster you focus on troops, but Iraq needs stability security, infrastructure rebuilding, advice, money, expertise from the US. If the troops go this too will have to go.
And if it doesn't get done by the US, who will do it?
The next Saddam-like strongman?
An Iranian Shiite proxy bent on spreading more fundamentalist terrorism?


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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embassy employment anyone?

Any American or Iraqi who had any doubt that the invasion of Iraq was not predestined for U.S. occupation need only look at the photo of the new 104-acre (10 times the usual size) U.S. "Embassy" in Baghdad (Star Tribune, April 14).

Given that there is a military recruiting shortage, who will fulfill the U.S. government's requirements to support this ill-fated folly?

Perhaps the military is destined to be next in line to hire illegal immigrants to perform jobs Americans won't do at any price.

But don't count on a long-term job

The U.S. Embassy being built in Baghdad appears to be an extravagant waste of U.S. taxpayer dollars for a embassy that may end up being a pile of rubble.
http://www.startribune.com/563/story/389293.html


You only have to read the Iraqi resistance report to see that half the city is already rubble, and what is rebuilt is bombed over and again. remember the Baghdad UN security headquarters was razed to the ground by a car bomb in 2003?
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m22662&l=i&size=1&hd=0
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