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plasticmustache
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Grammar: Why are these sentences not correct etc.. |
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The city was completely forgotten by the people. (passive)
choose the correct one:
1) People completely forgot the city.
2) People forgot the city completely.
3) People forgot completely the city.
4) The people completely forgot the city.
5) People completely forgot about the city.
Why does #3 not work, while #1 and #2 do. #5 doesn't work because the task was to re arrange the above passive into an active sentence, and the word 'about' is not present in the original sentence. #4 Seems ok with me as well. What the hell are the correct sentences and why?
Speak in grammatical terms if possible.  thx!
Have a nice day! |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| It's obviously number 4. If you're going to rearrange 'The city was completely forgotten by the people' into an active clause, all you should change is its passivity. You should not alter the article configuration. 'People' (an abstract generic reference) and 'the people' (a particular reference) are most certainly not the same thing. |
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out of context
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| #3 is grammatically incorrect because an adverb is never supposed to come between a verb and its object in English. #1, #2 and #5 have no problems grammatically, but they differ from the base sentence either because they take away the article or add "about". |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar: Why are these sentences not correct etc.. |
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| plasticmustache wrote: |
The city was completely forgotten by the people. (passive)
choose the correct one:
1) People completely forgot the city.
2) People forgot the city completely.
3) People forgot completely the city.
4) The people completely forgot the city.
5) People completely forgot about the city.
Why does #3 not work, while #1 and #2 do. #5 doesn't work because the task was to re arrange the above passive into an active sentence, and the word 'about' is not present in the original sentence. #4 Seems ok with me as well. What the hell are the correct sentences and why?
Speak in grammatical terms if possible. thx!
Have a nice day! |
This is a case of switching from passive voice to active voice. Simply switch the object and the subject, which is number 4.
3 doesn�t work because you omit the article �the� which changes the meaning of the sentence. Without �the� you are now talking in general terms when referencing �people�, which is not the case in the original sentence.
1 and 2 are not correct because you are removing �the� which removes the idea that you know whom the people are.
Number 5 doesn�t work because of the preposition �about�, I believe you already understand why so I won�t go into detail about this one.
Hope this helps.
Me. |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar: Why are these sentences not correct etc.. |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| plasticmustache wrote: |
The city was completely forgotten by the people. (passive)
choose the correct one:
1) People completely forgot the city.
2) People forgot the city completely.
3) People forgot completely the city.
4) The people completely forgot the city.
5) People completely forgot about the city.
Why does #3 not work, while #1 and #2 do. #5 doesn't work because the task was to re arrange the above passive into an active sentence, and the word 'about' is not present in the original sentence. #4 Seems ok with me as well. What the hell are the correct sentences and why?
Speak in grammatical terms if possible. thx!
Have a nice day! |
This is a case of switching from passive voice to active voice. Simply switch the object and the subject, which is number 4.
3 doesn�t work because you omit the article �the� which changes the meaning of the sentence. Without �the� you are now talking in general terms when referencing �people�, which is not the case in the original sentence.
1 and 2 are not correct because you are removing �the� which removes the idea that you know whom the people are.
Number 5 doesn�t work because of the preposition �about�, I believe you already understand why so I won�t go into detail about this one.
Hope this helps.
Me. |
I believe that I already said this in one quarter the number of words. But I appreciate that you might need to show off your knowledge too. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| It's obviously number 4. If you're going to rearrange 'The city was completely forgotten by the people' into an active clause, all you should change is its passivity. You should not alter the article configuration. 'People' (an abstract generic reference) and 'the people' (a particular reference) are most certainly not the same thing. |
Eyeball,
You are a t.u.r.d. Plain and simple. He asked the following:
| Quote: |
| Why does #3 not work, while #1 and #2 do. |
So I answered them. Go back to reading your Dr. Suess books and at the same time, try reading the "whole" post and not just part of it.  And, I corrected him on 1 and 2 as he was wrong. Sure, I reiterated what you said regarding the correct answer. So what? It's called a complete response.
So, let's do the math. You gave 25% of the response he was looking for. I gave the other 75%. WOW!  Look at that!  A complete response  |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| How about this one? " In my room is a desk." Explain why this is wrong or correct. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| How about this one? " In my room is a desk." Explain why this is wrong or correct. |
I'll give it a whirl:
What you presented us is not a sentence. Rather, it is a fragment. It seems as though you are missing the surrogate subject "there". In the English language, there must be a subject. When there isn't one present, we default to the surrogate. Often times, you will see it as "it" in "It is raining."
However, in this case, "there" is answered by "in my room". Thus, you are just missing the subject.
or
You could see the sentence "In my room is a desk." still as a fragment, but missing the clause that explains the desk. For example, In my room is a desk that can dance. You need some form of explanation for its being "is". Ask yourself, "is a desk what?" "is a desk that what?" "is a desk...that serves what purpose". |
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mountainous
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| out of context wrote: |
| #3 is grammatically incorrect because an adverb is never supposed to come between a verb and its object in English. #1, #2 and #5 have no problems grammatically, but they differ from the base sentence either because they take away the article or add "about". |
never say never....I wrote legibly on Dave's ESL |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| It's obviously number 4. If you're going to rearrange 'The city was completely forgotten by the people' into an active clause, all you should change is its passivity. You should not alter the article configuration. 'People' (an abstract generic reference) and 'the people' (a particular reference) are most certainly not the same thing. |
Eyeball,
You are a t.u.r.d. Plain and simple. He asked the following:
| Quote: |
| Why does #3 not work, while #1 and #2 do. |
So I answered them. Go back to reading your Dr. Suess books and at the same time, try reading the "whole" post and not just part of it. And, I corrected him on 1 and 2 as he was wrong. Sure, I reiterated what you said regarding the correct answer. So what? It's called a complete response.
So, let's do the math. You gave 25% of the response he was looking for. I gave the other 75%. WOW! Look at that! A complete response |
Whatever you say, mate. *beep*. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| How about this one? " In my room is a desk." Explain why this is wrong or correct. |
I'll give it a whirl:
What you presented us is not a sentence. Rather, it is a fragment. It seems as though you are missing the surrogate subject "there". In the English language, there must be a subject. When there isn't one present, we default to the surrogate. Often times, you will see it as "it" in "It is raining."
However, in this case, "there" is answered by "in my room". Thus, you are just missing the subject.
or
You could see the sentence "In my room is a desk." still as a fragment, but missing the clause that explains the desk. For example, In my room is a desk that can dance. You need some form of explanation for its being "is". Ask yourself, "is a desk what?" "is a desk that what?" "is a desk...that serves what purpose". |
cubanlord I suspect you've been teaching kids too long and have lost perspective because there's nothing wrong with "In my room is a desk". It's a reversal of the normal positions of subject and object in order to emphasize the importance of the object or show it is the topic. It's too bad there are so few students sufficiently advanced to appreciate and not be confused by this and many other of the more interesting features of English (says he bitterly, and if anyone knows if this is actually covered in a Korean standard textbook feel free to correct me).
Other examples:
"To my left is a factory"
"In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit"
etc |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| How about this one? " In my room is a desk." Explain why this is wrong or correct. |
I'll give it a whirl:
What you presented us is not a sentence. Rather, it is a fragment. It seems as though you are missing the surrogate subject "there". In the English language, there must be a subject. When there isn't one present, we default to the surrogate. Often times, you will see it as "it" in "It is raining."
However, in this case, "there" is answered by "in my room". Thus, you are just missing the subject.
or
You could see the sentence "In my room is a desk." still as a fragment, but missing the clause that explains the desk. For example, In my room is a desk that can dance. You need some form of explanation for its being "is". Ask yourself, "is a desk what?" "is a desk that what?" "is a desk...that serves what purpose". |
cubanlord I suspect you've been teaching kids too long and have lost perspective because there's nothing wrong with "In my room is a desk". It's a reversal of the normal positions of subject and object in order to emphasize the importance of the object or show it is the topic. It's too bad there are so few students sufficiently advanced to appreciate and not be confused by this and many other of the more interesting features of English (says he bitterly, and if anyone knows if this is actually covered in a Korean standard textbook feel free to correct me).
Other examples:
"To my left is a factory"
"In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit"
etc |
I was also going to mention that, CL. Unlucky, eh? How's the TESOL MA going? |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| It's obviously number 4. If you're going to rearrange 'The city was completely forgotten by the people' into an active clause, all you should change is its passivity. You should not alter the article configuration. 'People' (an abstract generic reference) and 'the people' (a particular reference) are most certainly not the same thing. |
Eyeball,
You are a t.u.r.d. Plain and simple. He asked the following:
| Quote: |
| Why does #3 not work, while #1 and #2 do. |
So I answered them. Go back to reading your Dr. Suess books and at the same time, try reading the "whole" post and not just part of it. And, I corrected him on 1 and 2 as he was wrong. Sure, I reiterated what you said regarding the correct answer. So what? It's called a complete response.
So, let's do the math. You gave 25% of the response he was looking for. I gave the other 75%. WOW! Look at that! A complete response |
Whatever you say, mate. *beep*. |
lol. Don't get your panties in a bunch now. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| How about this one? " In my room is a desk." Explain why this is wrong or correct. |
I'll give it a whirl:
What you presented us is not a sentence. Rather, it is a fragment. It seems as though you are missing the surrogate subject "there". In the English language, there must be a subject. When there isn't one present, we default to the surrogate. Often times, you will see it as "it" in "It is raining."
However, in this case, "there" is answered by "in my room". Thus, you are just missing the subject.
or
You could see the sentence "In my room is a desk." still as a fragment, but missing the clause that explains the desk. For example, In my room is a desk that can dance. You need some form of explanation for its being "is". Ask yourself, "is a desk what?" "is a desk that what?" "is a desk...that serves what purpose". |
cubanlord I suspect you've been teaching kids too long and have lost perspective because there's nothing wrong with "In my room is a desk". It's a reversal of the normal positions of subject and object in order to emphasize the importance of the object or show it is the topic. It's too bad there are so few students sufficiently advanced to appreciate and not be confused by this and many other of the more interesting features of English (says he bitterly, and if anyone knows if this is actually covered in a Korean standard textbook feel free to correct me).
Other examples:
"To my left is a factory"
"In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit"
etc |
I was also going to mention that, CL. Unlucky, eh? How's the TESOL MA going? |
"Yeah, CL." "I was going to mention that too." "Really, Privateer, I was! I swear!".
T.U.R.D.
And in regards to the sentence, sure I have seen it before, but there is more than one way of writing it. You damn prescriptivists!   |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| How about this one? " In my room is a desk." Explain why this is wrong or correct. |
I'll give it a whirl:
What you presented us is not a sentence. Rather, it is a fragment. It seems as though you are missing the surrogate subject "there". In the English language, there must be a subject. When there isn't one present, we default to the surrogate. Often times, you will see it as "it" in "It is raining."
However, in this case, "there" is answered by "in my room". Thus, you are just missing the subject.
or
You could see the sentence "In my room is a desk." still as a fragment, but missing the clause that explains the desk. For example, In my room is a desk that can dance. You need some form of explanation for its being "is". Ask yourself, "is a desk what?" "is a desk that what?" "is a desk...that serves what purpose". |
cubanlord I suspect you've been teaching kids too long and have lost perspective because there's nothing wrong with "In my room is a desk". It's a reversal of the normal positions of subject and object in order to emphasize the importance of the object or show it is the topic. It's too bad there are so few students sufficiently advanced to appreciate and not be confused by this and many other of the more interesting features of English (says he bitterly, and if anyone knows if this is actually covered in a Korean standard textbook feel free to correct me).
Other examples:
"To my left is a factory"
"In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit"
etc |
I was also going to mention that, CL. Unlucky, eh? How's the TESOL MA going? |
"Yeah, CL." "I was going to mention that too." "Really, Privateer, I was! I swear!".
T.U.R.D.
And in regards to the sentence, sure I have seen it before, but there is more than one way of writing it. You damn prescriptivists! |
Hold on! 'Prescriptivists'?! You said that it WAS NOT A SENTENCE, but it clearly is. You were completely wrong. Just admit it, and then also admit to the dangers of hubris. |
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