Korean Job Discussion Forums

[xingyiman]

I have noticed that in lieu of the recent fervor over the new VISA regs, many people are puporting the notion that "true" teachers who have a teaching degree and are certified are much better instructors than the majority of ESL teachers who simply possess a 4 year degree in a particular field. My experience runs contrary to this however. No matter what field, the certified teachers (read elementary and secondary) that I had were mostly worthless. The college instructors who had no "teaching" training were in most regards some of the best instructors I ever had. I come from a family of teachers and have known many throughout my life and can say from experience that the teaching industry has just as many freakish losers as any other segment of society who could give a rats behind about their jobs or how well they perform. An equal number regularly hit the club scene after hours and would get stonefaced dunk having a hangover the next day which affected their classroom activities. I know we are all hung up on credentials and "certification" has become the holy sacriment of western society. I am from the IT industry and can tell you that an individual certification is no gaurantee of how well a person will perform on any job, much to the dismay of many managers who hired such individuals at face value only to discover that they spent most of their time at work surfing the web and chatting. In my opinion a good personality and work ethic speak volumes above any credentials which a person may or may not possess. A teaching degree and certification are not going to impart moral character and a strong work ethic to an individual in whom they are void to begin with. Furthermore, as I have noticed a teacher schooled in Western practices is just about as effctive as a dance major when confronted with a classroom full of children who might as well be listening to the teacher reading the Wall Street Journal in Arabic as trying to teach an English lesson.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Having a teaching certificate is evidence that someone has made an investment in teaching and, for a brief period, been exposed to more theories and ideas. I'd say it increases the odds of someone being a 'good' teacher by about a whopping 10%.

I'm also sure that amongst those of us who teach childern, far less than 10% are 'qualified' to teach ESL to children of the same age group back home. By far the most ridiculous claims I've ever seen were from people who were social studies or science teachers back home who think they're better qualified to teach EFL over here.

[xingyiman]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[GoldMember]

So what is a good teacher and what is a bad teacher?

Good Teacher
Likes Kimchi
Works extra hours for free
Gives attendance to absent students
Gives A+ to students who can't speak a lick of English
Is handsome/attractive

Bad Teacher
Doesn't like Kimchi
Expects to be paid
Assigns Homework
Fails, useless lazy students
Expects students to actually study

Being good/bad has got NOTHING to do with qualifications in Korea

[Lao Wai]

Hey,

I do agree with the idea that not all 'certified' teachers in the West are good teachers. I had some terrible ones. However, I disagree with the notion that anybody with a pulse can get a BEd. The Ed Department at the university I went to received over 600 applications for 60 seats (due to the fact that it was a one year program). I got one of those seats. My marks were good in my undergrad (not spectacular or anything) and I had some previous teaching experience (Korea). A number of people in my class already had their masters degrees. Since I've been substitute teaching, I can't tell you the number of teachers I've met who are obtaining their masters degrees while they're teaching.

In terms of finding a teaching job, well, that's not easy either. I've been in the 'system' for about four months now (as a substitute teacher) and recently had two interviews this week. You really need to know your stuff for these interviews. For the elementary positions I had to do a 20 minute presentation on 'Balanced Literacy' and 'Numeracy'. They assume you can work well with children. That, and a good work ethic doesn't cut it anymore. You have to really know what you're talking about and what you're doing in the classroom. There was a panel of five people interviewing me (a little intimidating). I've also been going to as many of the professional development seminars as I can that the district offers (in the evening after I've taught for the day).

Anyway, I've felt like I've had to jump through a lot of hoops to get where I am and am continuing to do so. It's no cake walk to be a teacher in Canada (oh, unless you can teach French, that is).

[winterwawa]

I have to agree with the OP. Just because one has a teaching degree does not mean that person can teach. I don't agree, however, that teaching a 10 or 20 minute fake class is any indication of a person's ability, either. I have had interviews where I have had to do short 10-20 presentations in order to be evaluated as a teacher. I have never been offered a job by those institutions that require mock class presentations. How can a panel of 5 or 6 strangers evaluate teaching performance on a 10 minute lesson? Give me a full class of the students that I will be required to teach if I am hired, and an hour to teach them. Record the class and, watch the video and then decide.

A good teacher, IMHO, is one who can gain the trust and respect of their students and use that trust and respect to motivate them to learn. If I was in charge of hiring teachers at my university, I would not ask for references from past employeers, I would ask for references from past coworkers and students. Those are the people who really know the person applying for the job.

[Intrepid]

I thought about getting certified in the US to make international school jobs possible. 21 hours of undergraduate work + one year assistant teaching (for which I would have to pay tuition, and teach for free) would have been required. I got an MA instead--taught undergrads to cover tuition. Too bad I can't work at SFS, but whatever.

[Privateer]

I would imagine a large chunk of what BEds learn is irrelevant or possibly even detrimental to teaching non-native speakers. I've seen some teachers - both qualified teachers from home and those with just 4 year degrees - try to teach kids using standard American textbooks aimed at the equivalent age group and I always wondered how much just went straight over the kids' heads. Maybe those teachers knew something I didn't and got through to them or maybe their lessons were much less effective than they realised - or a bit of both.

We certainly never tried learning French and German at school by using the textbooks and techniques French and German kids were using. To me common sense says you've got to be near native speaker equivalent before you can try that, but it happens here a lot.

[whatever]

OP, ever heard of paragraphs? Didn't they cover that in your 'teacher training'?

[crusher_of_heads]

[xingyiman]

[whatever]

^Oh, I forgot to mention, your 'point' didn't make any sense, and it was boring. Props for wasting my time.

[the_beaver]

Good and bad on both sides. In my experience there tends to be more good teachers from the side that has studied education but no absolutes and plenty of exceptions.

[xingyiman]