Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Kuros]

Hi, Canadians.

Occasionally, I call upon you at times to inform we Americans about your country. This is one of those occasions. I'd like to know whether this email I received is fact/fiction, and to what extent.

Thanks for your assistance.

[Captain Corea]

My thoughts as a Canadian:

[Manner of Speaking]

Kuros,

Some managerial aspects:

- Canada doesn't have a "national" health care system or a "national" health insurance system per se. You know that some states in the US have state health insurance systems that cover all residents? (e.g., I think Washington and Minnesota). We have similar systems in each and every province. Hospital, doctor, and many allied health services are covered, but dental and drugs are not.

- Because of how the income and sales tax systems work in Canada, the majority of the funds for the health care system in each province come from cash transfers from the federal government. There is a federal law, the Canada Health Act, that details how those transfers are made and mandates that the provinces must provide equivalent quality of services across the country in order to receive the funds.

- Taxes ARE high in Canada. But nobody pays a "premium" over and above income and sales taxes for health care coverage. I've never heard of that, unless the person is referring to a premium for drug coverage with a private company. But that's voluntary.

- A lot of people also have drug and dental plans through their employers. Again, that's voluntary, people can opt out of those if they wish.

- There is some overprescription of drugs, but that's a problem in all developed countres. There's nothing about having a socialized medical system that makes that more of a problem. Drug costs are the fastest growing portion of health care costs in all developed countries. But in fact, prescription drugs are on average cheaper in Canada than the US because several years ago the federal government cut a deal with the big drug manufacturers to limit prices, in exchange for limiting the sales of generic drugs. Do you remember a couple of years ago all those stories of seniors coming up to Canada to buy prescription drugs, or ordering them from here through the Internet?

The system isn't perfect, and there are delays in services sometimes, such as scheduling surgeries. Doctors and nurses in Canada don't make as much money as they do in the US, and there is a serious chonic problem of "brain drain" - doctors and nurses moving to the US.

The part about the government alloting so many operations per year is absolute nonsense.

Number 4: I'm pretty sure you can get a family doctor if you need one.

Number 6: seems a little hard to believe.

Number 7: Yes, that can happen.

Number 10: also nonsense

Number 11: I don't think that's true, but I'm not 100% certain. The provincial health care systems are not HMOs; if I want a second opinion, I can go to another doctor, he's more than happy to bill the province for his services.

Number 13: yes legal immigrants get automatic coverage once they become a resident of a province, same as everybody else. But they pay income tax and sales taxes same as everybody else, and they don't pay any premiums, same as everbody else.

Number 14: Its a little bit comparing apples and oranges. There are some needle exchange programs in some provinces because fiscal analyses have shown these programs are often a cheaper way to handle drug addiction rehabilitation in the long run. Also, the long-term cost of treating one AIDS patient is horrendous, so on economic rationales alone, these programs make sense AND HELP REDUCE THE COST OF HEALTH CARE AND THEREFORE REDUCE TAXES.

Although the system isn't perfect, most Canadians are appalled at the idea of living under a privatized medical system. It's just our mentality, we're partly European or Scandanavian in our outlook on life. Canadians per capita buy more life insurance than anybody else in the world.

[Manner of Speaking]

You know Kuros when I read about this stuff in the US it seems a little bizarre, because I know for a fact that there are a few states that have state health insurance and health care systems like we have in Canada and they seem to work fine. Even though they probably receive less funding from the US federal government than the provinces receive from the Canadian federal government.

[Mosley]

Also a Canuck, here. I agree with the Captain that this guy is making serious coin to be in that tax bracket. Points:
1) If he's paying a premium then he must be in Alberta. The trade-off there is that there's no PST. Some like that, some don't.

2) Aside from cancer patients, there are definitely some long wait times. A hot issue in Canadian politics.

3) Probably true. And doctors sure like to rack up patient visits!

4) Probably true.

5) There HAVE been cases of some really banged-up people waiting a fair bit of time for treatment. Part of that is due to abuse of the system-people showing up at ER w/no real emergency.

6) That's news to me.

7) Could be true. If she needed surgery to rectify it then it could be the doc f564ed up big time.

Honestly don't know.

9) Many politicians admit the system is flawed-even defenders of universal socialized medicine.

10) This is the elephant in the room few politicos want to talk about: should the system discriminate against those who abuse their bodies?

11) I don't think that's true.

12) Again, a hot issue in Canada. A recent Supreme Court decision seems to point the way for those who would prefer to use private clinics.

13) The Captain must travel in pretty liberal circles because quite a few Canadians complain about this.

14) I thought needles were covered.

[Mosley]

MOS: See my comment under point 1: the average Albertan pays about 800 bucks a year in health care premiums.

[Manner of Speaking]

[Captain Corea]

[twg]

[Mosley]

Captain: No, I don't imagine there are too many liberals(or Liberals) in Calgary.

As far as the "$800" figure goes, I heard that figure somewhere as an average. It was my understanding there was an option of paying the fee up front or having a portion taken off paycheques. Not really sure....

[anae]

You get a bill from the Alberta government. It comes every three months. Our family coverage was about $62 per month. Many employers cover this cost, so we haven't paid the govenment directly since my husband landed a full time job. The funny part is that the money doesn't go directly to health care, but instead goes right into the General Revenue Fund.

[Fresh Prince]

I'm currently in the U.S. now, and had a job offer, here's the details:

Taxes:
Federal- 20%
State- 7%
Social Security- 15%
Misc. (medicare, etc.)- 2%
Sales Tax- depends on what you buy

Medical Insurance:
The company uses ****** Healthcare (Yes, the same company that was in the Michael Moore film)

The best coverage costs you $200 a month (it's actually $400 but the company pays half). The best plan offered covers 90% of some things, 0% of some things, and 50% of some things. It's almost impossible to determine what percentage of treatment they will cover because there are so many exclusions and different rules. There is a $15 payment (copay) required at every doctor visit and you are responsible for paying the first $500 (deductible) of the medical treatment.

The cheapest coverage is $150 a month and it covers only 80% of some things, 0% of some things, and 50% of some things.

You have to use the doctors which are in the preferred network (insurance company approved doctors) or they only cover 50% of things that they would have paid 80%-90%)

Before the insurance company pays for treatment, they assign an adjuster to look at the bills and they will deny things that they determine are; unrelated to your illness, pre-existing conditions (stuff you were born with or didn't get taken care of before you got insurance), and stuff that they deem is excessive and not necessary.

Dental Insurance:
The only choice is ***** Dental. They have the same confusing percentage system as the medical insurance program but pay 100% of: 2 teeth cleanings per year; 1 full mouth x-ray per year, 2 bite wing x-rays per year.

They require use of their preferred dentists for or coverage is reduced. I called them and found that there was only 1 preferred dentist in my town. (I called the dentist and they told me that there was a 3 month wait for your first appointment, which is only for x-rays, then they will schedule a cleaning appointment and there is a 1 month wait for that). I called the preferred dentists in two nearby cities, each an hour away and was told there is a similar waiting period.

Vision Insurance:
The company offers vision insurance which is only $15 per month. The insurance covers the cost of one eye exam per year but only at their preferred provider (insurance company approved doctor). They also cover 50% of the cost of glasses frames up to $100 and 50% of the cost of lenses up to $100. I called the preferred eye doctor and found that the cost of glasses at their office was nearly twice what the retail stores in the mall charge. The secretary at the eye doctor actually told me that it would probably be cheaper for me to go to the mall and buy my glasses out of pocket than use the insurance.

Buying Insurance out of pocket without having a job:
Since I'm not employed yet, I needed to buy health insurance on my own. I found that there is only one company in this state that will sell medical insurance to individuals that are unemployed.

The company is **** **** and they require an extremely long and detailed application. They can deny anyone they want and they base their rates on your prior medical history. They also review all treatment to see if they can deny it as being pre-existing, or to see if you lied on your application. I was charged a $200 application fee which is non-refundable, and they charged me $200 a month. The insurance had a variety of complicated percentages of things they covered and they required that all patients go to their approved doctors only.

Edited to remove company names due to uncertainty about international issues dealing with company names.

[Nowhere Man]

Is anyone here envious (in the sense that they'd rather pay US insurance companies to look after their health?

[some waygug-in]

Not sure what the current situation is in my home province of Saskatchewan, but I must add that there were "extra" charges for health care in good ol' Sask as well. (at least when I lived there)

There was a deductable amount which people had to pay yearly before they could get coverage under the drug plan. It's been a while, so I don't know exactly what it is, but I seem to recall something in the order of $150/ year.

Then there is the problem of certain services and or drugs not being covered in the health plan. Usually when this happens the costs are not cheap.

I am not up on the current figures, but I can remember my aunts and uncles talking about having to pay large sums for diabetes medications.
Don't quote me on this because my memory is a bit fuzzy, but it really depends on a lot of factors.

Anyway, I thought this was worth mentioning.

I have to agree with the OP that there are big problems with the Canadian health care system, but I will say this..... I'd much rather be poor - low income and sick in Canada than in the US.

[No_hite_pls]