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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: Christopher Paul Neil for dummies |
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There seems to be some ambiguity on the facts about Christopher Paul Neil, the alleged pedophile from Canada who was in Korea for a while.
Given that it appears he was the main reason Korea decided to revamp its rules for granting teaching visas to native English speakers, I think it is relevant to pin down the key facts about Neil, primarily as it relates to his time in Korea.
It would also be interesting to know his current status. I presume he has not yet been convicted. In most countries when someone has not yet been convicted or pleaded guilty, one appends "alleged" to mentions of crimes. I was shocked when my co-teacher referred to Neil as the "convicted" child abuser. So, many Koreans seem confused about Neil, too.
Here are some links, courtesy of a posting by kiwiana:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/10/16/pedophile-cdn.html
http://digg.com/world_news/International_Pedophile_went_to_Catholic_school
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil
Basic facts I would like pinned down (with citations, where possible) are:
-- What type of visa did Neil enter on?
-- Where did he teach?
-- Has Korea charged him with any sex crimes?
-- Did he provide a criminal background check?
-- Did he have an authentic college degree?
-- Did Neil have any criminal record in Canada that would have shown up on a CRC? If so, how was he able to teach in Canada?
I am also curious whether Korea has arrested other ESL teachers on child sex crime charges, and how many?
There is a great deal of information on Dave's, some accurate, some not, as well as plenty of opinion. Could we focus on the facts of the case here, along with some informed opinion of the following question:
Would the new rules have prevented Neil from teaching in Korea? |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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"I presume he has not yet been convicted. In most countries when someone has not yet been convicted or pleaded guilty, one appends "alleged" to mentions of crimes. I was shocked when my co-teacher referred to Neil as the "convicted" child abuser. "
I would have a lot more sympathy for your stance here if he hadn't advertised on the internet that he was bangin' kids. The way I see it, he convicted himself in the eyes of public opinion, and he should get exactly what's coming to him. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Christopher Paul Neil for dummies |
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| idonojacs wrote: |
Would the new rules have prevented Neil from teaching in Korea? |
No, they would not. That's what's so disturbing out his case. Unlike you, however, I have no sympathy. Osama Bin Laden is the 'alleged' mastermind behind 911 but I'd have little sympathy if someone took him out tomorrow (or took out GWB, for that matter). |
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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If Neil "advertised on the internet that he was bangin' kids," then you could describe him as "Neil, admitted child abuser," provided you could establish that it was Neil who actually posted these statements on the web. But you still could not describe him as "convicted." That is something a court of law does to a defendant.
Such an admission would be a relevant fact -- a citation would be helpful here -- but not entirely relevant to his stay in Korea, unless he advertised bangin kids in Korea.
If it is relevant, then what happens next? Is Korea going to ask for all our log on names and passwords so they can check whether we are "advertising" that we are sex offenders? Will they demand that we go to the computer and prove that we have not posted pictures of us having sex with children? So I think this is not entirely relevant.
Sorry.
Can we stick to the subject, please? |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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After he got caught, he denied his crimes. In my mind (and many others) I am about 99% sure he is guilty as charged, but he still deserves his day in court.
To call him convicted at this would not shock nor anger me, but it is certainly not true.
| idonojacs wrote: |
If Neil "advertised on the internet that he was bangin' kids," then you could describe him as "Neil, admitted child abuser," provided you could establish that it was Neil who actually posted these statements on the web. But you still could not describe him as "convicted." That is something a court of law does to a defendant.
Such an admission would be a relevant fact -- a citation would be helpful here -- but not entirely relevant to his stay in Korea, unless he advertised bangin kids in Korea.
If it is relevant, then what happens next? Is Korea going to ask for all our log on names and passwords so they can check whether we are "advertising" that we are sex offenders? Will they demand that we go to the computer and prove that we have not posted pictures of us having sex with children? So I think this is not entirely relevant.
Sorry.
Can we stick to the subject, please? |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting....
I wonder if the Thais will just let him go.
Canada wanted him but that doesn't mean they're going to get him. The Canadains are so eager to try out their new law.
Anyone bet he goes free soon? |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Christopher Paul Neil for dummies |
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| idonojacs wrote: |
-- Where did he teach?
-- Has Korea charged him with any sex crimes?
-- Did he provide a criminal background check?
-- Did he have an authentic college degree?
-- Did Neil have any criminal record in Canada that would have shown up on a CRC? If so, how was he able to teach in Canada? |
I can't give you any citations, but I knew him personally so I followed the story very closely.
In answer to some of your questions:
He taught at a high school in Yongin, and then at an international school in Gwangju.
Korea has not charged him with any sex crimes (you can ask the teacher who works at the same school to verify that-- no one has come forward with any complaints.)
He claimed on Dave's to have avoided the criminal record check by procrastinating, but he had no arrests or convictions in Canada.
He did have an authentic college degree, but was not invited to join the priesthood. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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kermo,
You probably know more about this than me, but do you think he'll be sent back to Canada?
Also, what is the strength of the evidence that the Thai Govt. is holding on?
Can he then be sent back to Canada after the Thais figure out what they're going to do with him? |
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0916
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Don't think he was convicted but he probably will be...
Last edited by 0916 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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0916
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| He should get locked up for his poetry too... |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Christopher Paul Neil for dummies |
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| idonojacs wrote: |
| I am also curious whether Korea has arrested other ESL teachers on child sex crime charges, and how many? |
Well, they did arrest a Korean teacher (not a teacher of English) but he got a 3 month suspension from teaching. The disciplinary action prompted protests from the students' parents.
So, if you're a Korean pedophile teacher, you get a 3-month unpaid vacation. If you're a foreigner who's never been convicted of any crime, you have to jump through hoops and still have the populace believe you're scum. |
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The Perfect Cup of Coffee
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Christopher Paul Neil for dummies |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Osama Bin Laden is the 'alleged' mastermind behind 911 but I'd have little sympathy if someone took him out tomorrow (or took out GWB, for that matter). |
NSA tracking program beginning in 3...2...1
Please click OK to confirm. |
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mrsquirrel
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
After he got caught, he denied his crimes. In my mind (and many others) I am about 99% sure he is guilty as charged, but he still deserves his day in court.
To call him convicted at this would not shock nor anger me, but it is certainly not true.
| idonojacs wrote: |
If Neil "advertised on the internet that he was bangin' kids," then you could describe him as "Neil, admitted child abuser," provided you could establish that it was Neil who actually posted these statements on the web. But you still could not describe him as "convicted." That is something a court of law does to a defendant.
Such an admission would be a relevant fact -- a citation would be helpful here -- but not entirely relevant to his stay in Korea, unless he advertised bangin kids in Korea.
If it is relevant, then what happens next? Is Korea going to ask for all our log on names and passwords so they can check whether we are "advertising" that we are sex offenders? Will they demand that we go to the computer and prove that we have not posted pictures of us having sex with children? So I think this is not entirely relevant.
Sorry.
Can we stick to the subject, please? |
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He deserves his day in court but honestly he is stuffed with the Thai legal system. They have to find him guilty. They have no option on it. If they didn't people would criticize them.
Doesn't matter if the fellow is guilty or not he IS going to prison in Thailand for 20 years. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
kermo,
You probably know more about this than me, but do you think he'll be sent back to Canada?
Also, what is the strength of the evidence that the Thai Govt. is holding on?
Can he then be sent back to Canada after the Thais figure out what they're going to do with him? |
In Thailand, several boys he was involved with have come forward and testified that they were "kidnapped" (a taxi driver, possibly a relative, was paid to bring them to him.)
This article says that he will be extradicted to Canada after he is prosecuted in Thailand, but I don't know what the status of the trial is now.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/10/19/childsex.suspect/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/10/19/childsex.suspect/index.html |
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get it.
Ultimately, the system worked. They caught Neil. He is going to trial, and then presumably he will go to jail.
If he wasn't convicted of crimes in Canada, he would have had a clean CRC, wouldn't he? He would have been let in under the old system, he would have been able to get in under the new system. The Canadian authorities were not looking for Neil by name until after he arrived in Korea, right?
We are talking about one person out of 17,000 native English ESL teachers in Korea.
He is not even charged with a crime in Korea.
Why are we doing all this?
Authorities caught Neil with the help of ESL teachers in Korea. |
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