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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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 Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: And You Thought Korean Zoos Were Bad |
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Last edited by dogbert on Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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crash bang
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Location: gwangju
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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2 things...
-other than the entertainment aspect of it (which I find quite nasty), isn't this basically what happens in the wild?
-why is this in this forum? If you attached it to the old thread about koreans zoos... maybe. But as it stands, I'm guessing it'll get moved. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by dogbert on Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:58 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
2 things...
It is a message for those with grievances (that means you guys, not the Koreans).
-other than the entertainment aspect of it (which I find quite nasty), isn't this basically what happens in the wild? |
No. And, the "entertainment aspect" of it is the point.
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| -why is this in this forum? If you attached it to the old thread about koreans zoos... maybe. But as it stands, I'm guessing it'll get moved. |
I'm surprised you haven't been made a mod yet. |
You mean mods are made and not grown in some test tube?? 
hey, I just noticed you edited my quote (or it got messed up somehow)... where did the whole "It is a message for those with grievances (that means you guys, not the Koreans)." bit come from? I didn't write it. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Man, I have so many comments to make about this one.
1) Do they want the lions to be fed organically grown vegetables only?
2) Children are more intelligent than they give them credit for. They know where food comes from and understand that beasts like lions cannot survive on berries and nuts. I mean, they see that sort of thing on TV all the time.
3) Don't know about girls, but boys are generally fascinated by lions and tigers and would probably love seeing one devour a goat.
4) Must have been child abuse when my dad started bringing me fishing and hunting when I was 6 years old, right? I guess it was also child abuse when he allowed me to set up my own snares to catch jackrabbits when I was 8. Only people who have only known the sheltered life of a city dweller would think that this is child abuse. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
2 things...
It is a message for those with grievances (that means you guys, not the Koreans).
-other than the entertainment aspect of it (which I find quite nasty), isn't this basically what happens in the wild? |
No. And, the "entertainment aspect" of it is the point.
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| -why is this in this forum? If you attached it to the old thread about koreans zoos... maybe. But as it stands, I'm guessing it'll get moved. |
I'm surprised you haven't been made a mod yet. |
As I was saying before, to claim that it is wrong because it is abuse or entertainment is missing the point. To criticize the practice without considering that it's educational aspect and scream of child abuse is simply being culturally insensitive. I would guess that Chinese kids are far more aware of where food comes from than Westerners who never went hunting as kid and grew up eating processed food.
In any case, I'm not sure it is the most humane thing to do. Then again, with that many lions waiting to pounce on them, if they survive the fall their suffering is probably short lived. They probably die quicker that way than if they had their throats slit by a butcher's knife. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
Man, I have so many comments to make about this one.
1) Do they want the lions to be fed organically grown vegetables only? |
Why do you think that zoos in the U.S., for example, do not feed carnivores live prey?
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| 2) Children are more intelligent than they give them credit for. They know where food comes from and understand that beasts like lions cannot survive on berries and nuts. I mean, they see that sort of thing on TV all the time. |
The situation in the zoo there is not at all similar to a lion's predatory behavior in the wild.
What the children are learning there is not how lions hunt and survive, but about the legitimacy of animal abuse and cruelty.
Why is it necessary to have the children's parents select, purchase, and toss defenseless domesticated prey to lions? Is that a lesson a parent need teach? Is it preferable to have parents do that rather than zookeepers?
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| 3) Don't know about girls, but boys are generally fascinated by lions and tigers and would probably love seeing one devour a goat. |
Would you be in favor of having zoos in your home country adopt this model? I don't know where you are from, but I guarantee that this sort of "experience" is not available where you're from.
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| 4) Must have been child abuse when my dad started bringing me fishing and hunting when I was 6 years old, right? I guess it was also child abuse when he allowed me to set up my own snares to catch jackrabbits when I was 8. Only people who have only known the sheltered life of a city dweller would think that this is child abuse. |
You're wrong, jackass. I grew up in the country, went hunting, fishing, and watched countless steers, pigs, and lambs be slaughtered.
I assume your father was a responsible human being who taught you respect for your prey and a hunter's ethics.
Do you really want to compare him to some Chinese guy buying a domesticated goat and tossing it over a wall to be eaten by lions? I would be embarassed to compare my father that way. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
Man, I have so many comments to make about this one.
1) Do they want the lions to be fed organically grown vegetables only? |
Why do you think that zoos in the U.S., for example, do not feed carnivores live prey? |
Um, I've seen live prey bing fed to animals in zoos in N America (mice in snake enclosures and such).
I was under the impression that most were not fed chickens and such mainly because of disease concerns.
Why did you delete the OP, now no one knows what the heck this is all about? |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
Man, I have so many comments to make about this one.
1) Do they want the lions to be fed organically grown vegetables only? |
Why do you think that zoos in the U.S., for example, do not feed carnivores live prey?
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| 2) Children are more intelligent than they give them credit for. They know where food comes from and understand that beasts like lions cannot survive on berries and nuts. I mean, they see that sort of thing on TV all the time. |
The situation in the zoo there is not at all similar to a lion's predatory behavior in the wild.
What the children are learning there is not how lions hunt and survive, but about the legitimacy of animal abuse and cruelty.
Why is it necessary to have the children's parents select, purchase, and toss defenseless domesticated prey to lions? Is that a lesson a parent need teach? Is it preferable to have parents do that rather than zookeepers?
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| 3) Don't know about girls, but boys are generally fascinated by lions and tigers and would probably love seeing one devour a goat. |
Would you be in favor of having zoos in your home country adopt this model? I don't know where you are from, but I guarantee that this sort of "experience" is not available where you're from.
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| 4) Must have been child abuse when my dad started bringing me fishing and hunting when I was 6 years old, right? I guess it was also child abuse when he allowed me to set up my own snares to catch jackrabbits when I was 8. Only people who have only known the sheltered life of a city dweller would think that this is child abuse. |
You're wrong, jackass. I grew up in the country, went hunting, fishing, and watched countless steers, pigs, and lambs be slaughtered.
I assume your father was a responsible human being who taught you respect for your prey and a hunter's ethics.
Do you really want to compare him to some Chinese guy buying a domesticated goat and tossing it over a wall to be eaten by lions? I would be embarassed to compare my father that way. |
1) They don't want animal rights cults to picket them. Besides, don't they feed live rats to snakes at zoos? I guess that doesn't count because rats are dirty, right? But a goat... That's cruel. Whatever.
2) You're anthropomorphizing the lions. It's not abuse and cruelty when an animal kills to eat.
3) See my answer to number 1. It's silly. My friend was doing research on clams and some animal rights woman threatened to call the SPCA because she said it was cruel that he was simply opening up the clams. He had to inject menthol to numb them first.  Total waste of time.
4) Jackass? That was uncalled for.
My dad is a biologist and a farmer. He would know that killing the animals first wouldn't be any more humane than having the lions kill them instead. However, he would probably ask if it is a wise to keep so many lions together in such a small confined space. He would also question the wisdom of feeding so many lions at the same time as they might injure one another and the younger lions might not get enough food. |
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