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midwest
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: Salaries@Korean Teachers: Price-fixed salaries for Natives |
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A lot of you are discussing a list that public schools pass around showing the "levels" and salaries of current Native-speakers, but the real question is how much are the Korean English teachers with degrees in education, earning? During an interview I had before leaving Korea, the principal seemed to suggest that the Korean English teachers earned double the wages of Native-English speakers. I was oddly struck by his disclosure and was not sure if I had heard him correctly, because he changed the subject immediately. But his words waived a flag. Is this true? Does anyone really know? Are our salaries so openly discussed among school owners and directors, because these schools are hoping to "price-fix" the cost of hiring a Native?
We all need to do some homework! |
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Typhoon
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know about public schools, but I do know that hagwon associations fix salaries and vacation times. Schools that don't conform get a real hard time and eventually conform. |
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passport220
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Gyeongsangbuk-do province
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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From the discussions I have had many Korean public school English teachers make more (sometimes a lot more) than FT. However, this is with more years of experience and/or a master占퐏 degree.
Last year was my first year teaching. I have a degree in Economics and a TESOL cert. I was making the same (when you include free housing) as a Korean English teacher (with no masters) with 4 years on the job. |
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hari seldon
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Typhoon wrote: |
| I don't know about public schools, but I do know that hagwon associations fix salaries and vacation times. Schools that don't conform get a real hard time and eventually conform. |
Hagwons are desperate for teachers now. Bargain hard. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Salaries@Korean Teachers: Price-fixed salaries for Nativ |
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| midwest wrote: |
A lot of you are discussing a list that public schools pass around showing the "levels" and salaries of current Native-speakers, but the real question is how much are the Korean English teachers with degrees in education, earning? During an interview I had before leaving Korea, the principal seemed to suggest that the Korean English teachers earned double the wages of Native-English speakers. I was oddly struck by his disclosure and was not sure if I had heard him correctly, because he changed the subject immediately. But his words waived a flag. Is this true? Does anyone really know? Are our salaries so openly discussed among school owners and directors, because these schools are hoping to "price-fix" the cost of hiring a Native?
We all need to do some homework! |
Here is some salary information.
Foreign Language Teacher
35,780,000 won in average wage per year
3578(占쏙옙占쏙옙, 占쏙옙占쏙옙蛋占�)
http://know.work.go.kr/know/sub4/result_0.asp?search_code=04518&search_name=占쌤깍옙占쏘교占쏙옙
Foreign Language Hagwon Instructor
20,430,000 won in average wage per year
2043(占쏙옙占쏙옙, 占쏙옙占쏙옙蛋占�)
http://know.work.go.kr/know/sub4/result_0.asp?search_code=04621&search_name=占쌤깍옙占쏙옙占싻울옙占쏙옙占쏙옙
Elementary School Teacher
36,930,000 won in average wage per year
3693(占쏙옙占쏙옙, 占쏙옙占쏙옙蛋占�))
http://know.work.go.kr/know/sub4/result_0.asp?search_code=04520&search_name=占십듸옙占싻깍옙占쏙옙占쏙옙
Professor
64,770,000 won in average wage per year
6477(占쏙옙占쏙옙, 占쏙옙占쏙옙蛋占�)
http://know.work.go.kr/know/sub4/result_0.asp?search_code=04111&search_name=占싸뱄옙占썼열占쏙옙占쏙옙
Also consider
Teachers in Korea have guaranteed tenure until they reach the mandatory retirement age.
Annual teacher salaries, public schools (with minimum training) (US$)
Starting Salary: 25,177
After 15 years: 42,845
Top of Scale: 68,581
Attracting, Developing and Retaining Effective Teachers (April 2004)
Country Note: Korea
John Coolahan, Paulo Santiago, Rowena Phair and Akira Ninomiya
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Directorate for Education, Education and Training Policy Division
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/26/49/31690991.pdf
Giving Gifts for Teachers Day
Japundit, Polishing the apple (May 15, 2005)
http://japundit.com/archives/2005/05/15/polishing-the-apple
College Tutors Can Earn 60,000-100,000 Won Per Hour
by Yi-Young Cho and Soo-Jung Shin,
Donga.com (August 03, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=040000&biid=2004080497078
Have you been paid late in Korea?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=18732
Late pay... worth the wait?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=37989
Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448 |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: Re: Salaries@Korean Teachers: Price-fixed salaries for Nativ |
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I call BS on this one. This equals under 1.6 million a month with no housing. I don't know any English teachers working for this much, let alone have it as an average. There must be a lot of Swahili teachers out there working for peanuts. |
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midwest
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| passport220 wrote: |
From the discussions I have had many Korean public school English teachers make more (sometimes a lot more) than FT. However, this is with more years of experience and/or a master占퐏 degree.
Last year was my first year teaching. I have a degree in Economics and a TESOL cert. I was making the same (when you include free housing) as a Korean English teacher (with no masters) with 4 years on the job. |
how do you know that for sure? Where to find the info on Korean teachers' salaries? |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: Re: Salaries@Korean Teachers: Price-fixed salaries for Nativ |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
I call BS on this one. This equals under 1.6 million a month with no housing. I don't know any English teachers working for this much, let alone have it as an average. There must be a lot of Swahili teachers out there working for peanuts. |
That figure is for a Korean teaching English at a hagwon. |
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midwest
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Salaries@Korean Teachers: Price-fixed salaries for Nativ |
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| Real Reality wrote: |
| midwest wrote: |
A lot of you are discussing a list that public schools pass around showing the "levels" and salaries of current Native-speakers, but the real question is how much are the Korean English teachers with degrees in education, earning? During an interview I had before leaving Korea, the principal seemed to suggest that the Korean English teachers earned double the wages of Native-English speakers. I was oddly struck by his disclosure and was not sure if I had heard him correctly, because he changed the subject immediately. But his words waived a flag. Is this true? Does anyone really know? Are our salaries so openly discussed among school owners and directors, because these schools are hoping to "price-fix" the cost of hiring a Native?
We all need to do some homework! |
Here is some salary information.
Foreign Language Teacher
35,780,000 won in average wage per year
3578(占쏙옙占쏙옙, 占쏙옙占쏙옙蛋占�)
http://know.work.go.kr/know/sub4/result_0.asp?search_code=04518&search_name=占쌤깍옙占쏘교占쏙옙
Foreign Language Hagwon Instructor
20,430,000 won in average wage per year
2043(占쏙옙占쏙옙, 占쏙옙占쏙옙蛋占�)
http://know.work.go.kr/know/sub4/result_0.asp?search_code=04621&search_name=占쌤깍옙占쏙옙占싻울옙占쏙옙占쏙옙
Elementary School Teacher
36,930,000 won in average wage per year
3693(占쏙옙占쏙옙, 占쏙옙占쏙옙蛋占�))
http://know.work.go.kr/know/sub4/result_0.asp?search_code=04520&search_name=占십듸옙占싻깍옙占쏙옙占쏙옙
Professor
64,770,000 won in average wage per year
6477(占쏙옙占쏙옙, 占쏙옙占쏙옙蛋占�)
http://know.work.go.kr/know/sub4/result_0.asp?search_code=04111&search_name=占싸뱄옙占썼열占쏙옙占쏙옙
Also consider
Teachers in Korea have guaranteed tenure until they reach the mandatory retirement age.
Annual teacher salaries, public schools (with minimum training) (US$)
Starting Salary: 25,177
After 15 years: 42,845
Top of Scale: 68,581
Attracting, Developing and Retaining Effective Teachers (April 2004)
Country Note: Korea
John Coolahan, Paulo Santiago, Rowena Phair and Akira Ninomiya
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Directorate for Education, Education and Training Policy Division
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/26/49/31690991.pdf
Giving Gifts for Teachers Day
Japundit, Polishing the apple (May 15, 2005)
http://japundit.com/archives/2005/05/15/polishing-the-apple
College Tutors Can Earn 60,000-100,000 Won Per Hour
by Yi-Young Cho and Soo-Jung Shin,
Donga.com (August 03, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=040000&biid=2004080497078
Have you been paid late in Korea?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=18732
Late pay... worth the wait?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=37989
Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448 |
Okay, this is great info, I will do more research. But clearly, most of us would make a lot more money in our home countries just like native Korean teachers do. I think the pay in Korea is really low for hagwon and public school, native English teachers! |
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midwest
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| No wonder there is such a demand for native English teachers. We are really cheap labor when compared to the cost of hiring a native Korean teacher. We need to make a union and demand more money and better treatment. While the housing allowance is nice, it is generally a one-room deal and not that spectacular for living. I think most hogwan teachers earn from $22,000-24,000, and even with housing, is this such a great deal? After my recent experience in Korea, I left feeling like I was a cheap day-laborer, a migrant who was paid a small salary, while I can see the wealth of native Koreans' being much greater than I can hope to earn in the country. Native teachers need to organize themselves. |
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passport220
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Gyeongsangbuk-do province
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| midwest wrote: |
| passport220 wrote: |
From the discussions I have had many Korean public school English teachers make more (sometimes a lot more) than FT. However, this is with more years of experience and/or a master占퐏 degree.
Last year was my first year teaching. I have a degree in Economics and a TESOL cert. I was making the same (when you include free housing) as a Korean English teacher (with no masters) with 4 years on the job. |
how do you know that for sure? Where to find the info on Korean teachers' salaries? |
From a Korean English teacher with 4 years experience that I knew intimately. I saw her pay stub and we talked about it. I also had open conversations with other Korean English teachers about salary. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| We all need to do some homework! |
OK...and then what?
The Union thing has been proposed so often here that it has become a running joke.
About this:
| Quote: |
| No wonder there is such a demand for native English teachers. We are really cheap labor when compared to the cost of hiring a native Korean teacher. We need to make a union and demand more money and better treatment. While the housing allowance is nice, it is generally a one-room deal and not that spectacular for living. I think most hogwan teachers earn from $22,000-24,000, and even with housing, is this such a great deal? After my recent experience in Korea, I left feeling like I was a cheap day-laborer, a migrant who was paid a small salary, while I can see the wealth of native Koreans' being much greater than I can hope to earn in the country. Native teachers need to organize themselves. |
Foreign Teachers are not cheap labor Midwest. The cost of hiring a local Korean Teacher is higher how?
They might make a higher wage but then again they are all certified educators with a teaching liscence (are you?).
Korean teachers sure do not get housing as a benefit to their contract.
They have to deal with parents and teach a heavier load than most Foreign Teachers.
You want to organuize and demand more....make damn sure you deserve more and that you compare favorably to Korean Teachers in the Public School System buddy.
That means: qualifications (Degree in Education with proper certification), work load (teaching full hours, withing the education system, grading and dealing with parents and extra school activities, doing proper lesson planning, attending all staff meetings, education conferences and not counting your hours when students need help).
If you have all of this then you have a shot at comparison.
If you go to the Hakwon scene my friend, you will quickly notice that your average Foreign Teacher in a Hakwon makes the same or often much more than your average Korean Teacher.
Korean Teachers in Hakwons tend to work longer hours than you do, get less pay, get more grief and have to deal with far more pressure (parents, administration) than you do. They also do not get housing into the deal.
Back to the Union...how do you propose to organize such a Union?
Who will run it?
Who will join?
How will you convice short-timers to join it (those who spend 1-2 years here and leave)?
Would you be ready to work long-term with Korean law?
How would you administer Union dues?
Where would you go for legal counsel?
How would you deal with the completely heterogenous nature of the Teachers community here?
You have people with a B.A. in basket weaving teaching in Hakwons and content to play bingo all day and others with higher qualifications working their butts off in Hakwons.
You have PS teachers and then you have University Teachers usually with M.A.s and experience.
Why would these sub-groups want to associate with the first group of bingo cowboys?
How would you deal with Foreign Teachers illegally teaching (either on no papers, on fake papers or simply illlegally teaching privates)?
You cannot very well form a credible union unless you install some sort of procedure to check the credentials of applicants to the Union.
So...are Foreign Teachers "cheap labor"....I think not. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Typhoon wrote: |
| I don't know about public schools, but I do know that hagwon associations fix salaries and vacation times. Schools that don't conform get a real hard time and eventually conform. |
What are they going to do? If someone told me I couldn't run my school the way I want to run it, I'd tell them to get bent. |
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plus99
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| i make twice as much as my "boss" whose been doing this hagwon nonesense for 10 years. im fresh off the boat. |
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midwest
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| We all need to do some homework! |
OK...and then what?
The Union thing has been proposed so often here that it has become a running joke.
About this:
| Quote: |
| No wonder there is such a demand for native English teachers. We are really cheap labor when compared to the cost of hiring a native Korean teacher. We need to make a union and demand more money and better treatment. While the housing allowance is nice, it is generally a one-room deal and not that spectacular for living. I think most hogwan teachers earn from $22,000-24,000, and even with housing, is this such a great deal? After my recent experience in Korea, I left feeling like I was a cheap day-laborer, a migrant who was paid a small salary, while I can see the wealth of native Koreans' being much greater than I can hope to earn in the country. Native teachers need to organize themselves. |
Foreign Teachers are not cheap labor Midwest. The cost of hiring a local Korean Teacher is higher how?
They might make a higher wage but then again they are all certified educators with a teaching liscence (are you?).
Korean teachers sure do not get housing as a benefit to their contract.
They have to deal with parents and teach a heavier load than most Foreign Teachers.
You want to organuize and demand more....make damn sure you deserve more and that you compare favorably to Korean Teachers in the Public School System buddy.
That means: qualifications (Degree in Education with proper certification), work load (teaching full hours, withing the education system, grading and dealing with parents and extra school activities, doing proper lesson planning, attending all staff meetings, education conferences and not counting your hours when students need help).
If you have all of this then you have a shot at comparison.
If you go to the Hakwon scene my friend, you will quickly notice that your average Foreign Teacher in a Hakwon makes the same or often much more than your average Korean Teacher.
Korean Teachers in Hakwons tend to work longer hours than you do, get less pay, get more grief and have to deal with far more pressure (parents, administration) than you do. They also do not get housing into the deal.
Back to the Union...how do you propose to organize such a Union?
Who will run it?
Who will join?
How will you convice short-timers to join it (those who spend 1-2 years here and leave)?
Would you be ready to work long-term with Korean law?
How would you administer Union dues?
Where would you go for legal counsel?
How would you deal with the completely heterogenous nature of the Teachers community here?
You have people with a B.A. in basket weaving teaching in Hakwons and content to play bingo all day and others with higher qualifications working their butts off in Hakwons.
You have PS teachers and then you have University Teachers usually with M.A.s and experience.
Why would these sub-groups want to associate with the first group of bingo cowboys?
How would you deal with Foreign Teachers illegally teaching (either on no papers, on fake papers or simply illlegally teaching privates)?
You cannot very well form a credible union unless you install some sort of procedure to check the credentials of applicants to the Union.
So...are Foreign Teachers "cheap labor"....I think not. |
Spend less time being a naysayer. My ideas are not running jokes.
After my interview with the principal who told me, in his round about way, that we were being paid very little. This interview followed another twist in events that really made me think of my experience as different. I met international aide workers who told me about their work: They said Korea thrives on undocumented and cheap labor. In many places in Korea workers live on very little, in unheated, box-like buildings, called "containers." These look like a small semi-truck container and can be stacked. Look around now and you will see them for yourself.
Both the principal's comments and the aide workers' comments made me question the real "demand." I think we should all ask this question about the cost of our labor. No one really knows for sure what the pay is for native Korean teachers, but all the schools can cite our earning despite the "qualification" you describe. Our wages are"price-fixed." Why the disparity in information on the wages of a native Korean and American, that is the real question? Therefore, I suggest, we ask for more. Many of us have plenty of education and experience, with MA's from North America. Maybe some of you came because you felt unqualified to ask for more. Others, more informed, know their worth. |
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