Korean Job Discussion Forums

[idonojacs]

Find the factual errors, if any, in this opinion piece by Lee Dong-wook, who was admitted to the New York Bar in 2007.

Please be specific, and cite sources where possible that refute any of Mr. Lee's statements.

Better yet, imagine you are a lawyer countering Mr. Lee's statements in a court of law, trying to pursuade a jury you are right and Mr. Lee is wrong.

Since he is a member of the New York Bar, and we do not know whether he is accredited to practice law in Korea, we will say this court is in New York State.

Who would win?

For convenience and clarity, I have numbered the paragraphs.

(Please do not debate whether he is actually a real lawyer. His name, English style, does appear on the N.Y. Bar Association website.)

[Hanson]

Well, numbers 8 and 9, for starters...

[The_Conservative]

And numbers 12 and 14 are also wrong. American and Canadian embassies do not provide notarization services for CBC's.

[PGF]

He is a real attorney admitted to the New York Bar and a member of the American Bar Association, FWIW.

[icnelly]

Number 14: why do they need the reinforcement of a perjury charge? This seems poorly planned "Hey, why don't we make them notarize it, so if it turns out to be fake, and if the notary catches it, they can be charged with perjury!"

Also, it could be seen as passing the buck of verification to the notary.

That he has thought about the perjury charge shows he isn't as interested in the teachers as he says. Has there ever been any problem with convicting the teachers found to have used fake diplomas? No. There hasn't been any trouble with convictions, but what has come to light is Korea's lack of ability in detecting their own citizens with fake degrees, and those foreign workers with fake degrees.

And, how does this perjury charge fit into the verification, and regulation process for E-2s in South Korea? The charge would be totally seperate, as it would originate from another country, and I doubt there would be little interaction between the two countries on such a charge.

[Zaria32]

17. Was CPN on false documentation? First I've heard that this was the case...

[moosehead]

21.

simple. there's been no proof whatsoever that any of the measures K is taking is going to protect children from sex offenders.

when a sex offender IS caught - how many of you honestly believe it's the first time they've offended? that is, many go unapprehended for some time - it's the very nature of how they not just injure the child but warp their mind into convincing the child (1) they won't be believed if they DO tell someone (2) that the child actually caused it to happen therefore it's THEIR fault and they'll get in trouble (3) or worse, threaten the child or their families with harm if anyone learns about what's happened.

it's really offensive that these new regs are being used as some kind of excuse that sex offenders are hiding amongst us - foreign teachers - when the truth is sex offenders are everywhere, simply everywhere.

[Boodleheimer]

12.

the Embassy has made an official statement that they will not notarize these things. furthermore, the US State Dept will not notarize documents that are not federal. to wit: a local or state criminal background check cannot be given an apostille from the US State Dept. instead, the apostille must be issued by the office of the secretary of state of the individual state. additionally, it should be noted that the so-called national background check issued by the FBI cannot by notarized by the same. given the experience related by Khenan, it can only be assumed that either (a) the MOJ is unaware that the individual state can issue apostilles or (b) Americans cannot get the required documents period.

[some waygug-in]

This has been discussed on at least 2 previous threads, so I won't go over all the same things again.

But just a few points, aside from what has already been mentioned:


17. To name a few, Mr. Christopher Paul Neil, the serial child sex offender was detected while teaching in Korea with the false documentation. There were sporadic news reports about the holders of fraudulent diplomas and drug use this year.



This is an outright lie! Mr. Neil was not detected while teaching in Korea, but was caught in Thailand after someone in Germany was able to unswirl the image Mr. Neil had posted on the net. While it is true that Mr. Neil had been teaching in Korea, he was here on an E7 visa and was thus teaching illegally. So why the sudden concern about E2 visa holders? Mr. Neil could just as easily been on an F3 or a tourist visa for that matter. The whole justification for these new regs is bogus in my opinion.

Furthermore, even with the new regulations, Mr. Neil could have passed through the system undetected because prior to getting caught in Thailand, he had a clean record.

Sporadic reports of drug use and fraudulent diplomas... Ok. A few clowns in Seoul caught selling drugs, what has that got to do with the rest of us? Were any of these people here on E2 visas or were they here as tourists?

Fake degrees? How do they know the diplomas were fake? Were they proven false or were they only accused of being false. I've read in another thread where people are being asked to verify their diplomas online. While this may be possible in a few cases, for most of us it is not only impossible, but an insult in that we have already submitted our diplomas to the immigration officials along with sealed transcripts from our
respective universities. So now they are saying that even sealed transcripts can be faked?



18. Of course, I do not believe that every English teacher is like Mr. Neil. For that reason, my colleagues and I are working hard to understand the situation of the native speakers more.


I think he is working hard to try and justify this knee-jerk reactionary policy on the part of the Korean government. I see little attempt to try and understand the situation of English teachers. Has the government even consulted the foreign teacher community about these new measures? I see no evidence that they have. They simply have accused
us all of being guilty and leaving the burden on us to prove otherwise. There has been no attempt to understand the ramifications of these new regs on people who are already here. For many of us, it will mean trips back to our home countries, the cost of hotels etc, sorting through the various levels of red tape from both governments, to try and get this sorted out. It could take weeks or even months for some of us to get all this stuff in order.

19. Mr. Quick also mentioned in a semi-threatening way that ``prospective and current teachers will simply choose to teach in Japan, China, or other countries, which do not require such an extraordinary burden � "


Semi-threatening? He was just being realistic. If Korea wants to shoot itself in the foot yet again.....well, what more can I say?

[garykasparov]

I think a second party paid Lee Dong-wook to write that ass-wipe material.

[idonojacs]

[blade]

[idonojacs]

Interesting point.

I wonder if Kimmi or MOJ has tried talking to Interpol to find out what resources are available?

Why try to reinvent the wheel if there is already some sort of international database of sex offenders. I wouldn't be surprised if there is, given the coordinated international nature of the investigations and busts that hit the news periodically.

If some such information is available, they should use it to screen all visa applicants, including tourists, and not just Western English teachers.

[PGF]

The US is very very open in regards to sharing information re: sex offenders.

Anyone, anywhere can log into any state's sex offender registry.
Not only can you search sex offenders by address, but you can search by name, zip code, etc. And, a picture of the offender appears along side their conviction info.

In the US, anyone can obtain a CBC on any other US citizen. There are no privacy laws protecting felons in the states.

Surely the MOJ knows this?

[Roch]