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Cognorati
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: Real Issues: Women's Rights |
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... and the perils women in Korea face.
The treatment of women in Korea has got to be one of the best kept "secrets" of the ROK.
If you are considering coming here, you should know about rape stats, sexual abuse, harassement, and molestation, and the MANY forms of gender discrimination that those of us working in Korea experience on a daily basis.
Here are Korea's ranking in gender equality: if this doesn't disuade you from coming, look into animal rights, and racism.
http://www.weforum.org/pdf/gendergap/rankings.xls
Well hey, out of 116 countries, Korea comes in at 92nd in terms of gender equity, so things aren't that bad at all, are they!? They're definetly doing better than Nigeria (94) Nepal (111), and Saudi Arabia (115) -- but then again, Tunisia and BANGLADESH have greater gender equity!
Detailed report:
http://www.weforum.org/pdf/gendergap/ggg07_korea_republic.pdf[/url] |
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cunning_stunt
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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When I asked my students to debate this issue they were seriously apathetic . And they are generally keen on a good debate if it relates to the serious issues . My students are 90% girls .
Not that it means anything but I do think there might be a little more smoke than fire in your post . |
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Cognorati
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
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You're right -- everything is just fine in the ROK. Consider this:
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Rape is a serious problem in South Korea. A total of 6,359 cases were reported in 1999. Most cases go unreported, because of the stigma attached to rape. A study found that only 2.2 percent of rape victims reported the assault to the police and an even lower percentage (0. 8 ) sought medical or psychological help. [...]
In 1997 there were incidents of domestic violence in 31.4 percent of South Korean households. That year, the Korea Research Institute for Culture and Sexuality, found that almost half (45.5 percent) of female high school students had been sexually molested by males, with fondling of breasts and genitals the most common offenses. |
http://www.thegully.com/essays/asia/031030_korea_gender_lgbt.html
My guess is that 45.5 percent of those girls in your debate classes are not inclined to discuss the issue with a male teacher -- but then again, because they were giggling and covering their mouths during the discussion, the issue isn't very serious...
Why are Koreans so outraged about rape and sexual abuse committed by foreigners (most notably, historic cases by the Japanese), when there is a culture of rape and sexual abuse, right here?
Sorry to put a damper on the men's locker room atmosphere of the Non-Korean community in ROK, but those dancing girls prancing about in the streets in the freezing cold (before the election), those giggling girls, your students who won't speak, the easy women in Itaewon, the prostitutes, the anonymous women in the up the skirt pictures on the net, the girls you hit on in the miniskirts, you're Korean spouses: they're the victims in those statistics.
And their submissiveness is so appealing, isn't it? Western women really shouldn't be such ballbusters -- maybe we should be re-educated, Korean style? |
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cunning_stunt
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| found that almost half (45.5 percent) of female high school students had been sexually molested by males, with fondling of *beep* and genitals the most common offenses. |
I simply don't believe that . Is that like those western studies that say one in two women are raped ? You believe this nonsense ???
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My guess is that 45.5 percent of those girls in your debate classes are not inclined to discuss the issue with a male teacher -- but then again, because they were giggling and covering their mouths during the discussion, the issue isn't very serious...
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Nah , they were happy to discuss it . Just didn't report that anything was dramatically wrong . I'm no expect and Korea seems very sexist to me . I'm just trying to lasoo in your hyperbole .
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| And their submissiveness is so appealing, isn't it? Western women really shouldn't be such ballbusters -- maybe we should be re-educated, Korean style? |
Now at least you're making sense . You'd be far more tolerable if you were pleasant and occasionally aimed to please .
Seriously though , fair bit of projection going on in there ....my suspicions that a well aimed wind up would bring out the hate and agenda in you was pretty accurate .
Last edited by cunning_stunt on Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cognorati
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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And in another post, you said that men felt the need to intervene when women were beaten by Korean males because men believed that "women had more rights than men", huh?
Yes, I've confirmed the question I asked you in another post: you are retarded -- this is why statistics mean nothing to you. But go ahead, entertain us with your wrestling brain cells. We are all ears (or eyes, as it were)... |
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cunning_stunt
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:28 am Post subject: |
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And in another post, you said that men felt the need to intervene when women were beaten by Korean males because men believed that "women had more rights than men", huh?
Yes, I've confirmed the question I asked you in another post: you are retarded -- this is why statistics mean nothing to you. But go ahead, entertain us with your wrestling brain cells. We are all ears (or eyes, as it were)... |
You've got a crush on me don't you sweetpea ?
Nice twisting of my words regarding the other thread....please link to it so people can see you for the manipulative liar you are . Then if they like they can make the assumptions they please about your statistics .
And yes there are very good reasons to question the validity and objectivity of statistics put out by hate groups like feminists .
Regards intellect : I've spent about 5 seconds responding to your posts while your mental clockwork creakes minutes to respond with these inadequate insults . I almost want to pat you on the back like one would to console a child ...but you'd probably accuse me of rape . |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| cunning_stunt wrote: |
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| found that almost half (45.5 percent) of female high school students had been sexually molested by males, with fondling of *beep* and genitals the most common offenses. |
I simply don't believe that . Is that like those western studies that say one in two women are raped ? You believe this nonsense ??? |
It wasn't one in two are RAPED, but that one in two are SEXUALLY ASSAULTED. It all hinges on how widely and liberally they define the term "sexual assault". Did they define it to mean rape and rape only, or does it include fondling, or how about being flashed, or having a dirty joke told to them?
They never quite say exactly what their definition of sexual assault that was used. |
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cunning_stunt
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: |
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It wasn't one in two are RAPED, but that one in two are SEXUALLY ASSUALTED. It all hinges on how widely and liberally they define the term "sexual assualt". Did they define it to mean rape and rape only, or does it include fondling, or how about being flashed, or having a dirty joke told to them?
They never quite say exactly what their definition of sexual assault that was used. |
Yeah . What total bollocks . As Fred said who is doing all this raping ? Are at least half my male friends rapists or are there just some really busy guys ?
I think most sane and rational women would laugh off such a statistic .
What exactly is sexual assault ? If it's sexual innuendo and the likes then its clearly a bollocks term .
Men already have to walk on glass around women . It's no longer about treating women as equals , it's about treating women like some kind of super princess royalty class ...you have to use special language and gentle behaviour etc.....You're not REALLY princesses girls...your daddy lied . .
In reality one of this matters because I treat everyone the same . I refuse to be extra nice to anybody because I find overtly nice people to be vindictive manipulative sociopaths operating with self serving agendas . That's pretty cynical but its mostly true . I think the truly best way to demonstrate you are a good person is to wear your thoughts and opinions on your sleave provided they are not unecessarily hurtful , not to emulate behaviour you find best provides you with positive results .(ie : being "nice")...that's even more cynical !
Last edited by cunning_stunt on Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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anyway
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| cunning_stunt wrote: |
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It wasn't one in two are RAPED, but that one in two are SEXUALLY ASSUALTED. It all hinges on how widely and liberally they define the term "sexual assualt". Did they define it to mean rape and rape only, or does it include fondling, or how about being flashed, or having a dirty joke told to them?
They never quite say exactly what their definition of sexual assault that was used. |
Yeah . What total bollocks . As Fred said who is doing all this raping ? Are at least half my male friends rapists or are there just some really busy guys ?
I think most sane and rational women would laugh off such a statistic .
What exactly is sexual assault ? If it's sexual innuendo and the likes then its clearly a bollocks term .
Men already have to walk on glass around women . It's no longer about treating women as equals , it's about treating women like some kind of super princess royalty class ...you have to use special language and gentle behaviour etc.....Your not REALLY princesses girls...your daddy lied . .
In reality one of this matters because I treat everyone the same . I refuse to be extra nice to anybody because I find overtly nice people to be vindictive manipulative sociopaths operating with self serving agendas . That's pretty cynical but its mostly true . I think the truly best way to demonstrate you are a good person is to wear your thoughts and opinions on your sleave provided they are not unecessarily hurtful , not to emulate behaviour you find best provides you with positive results .(ie : being "nice")...that's even more cynical ! |
How ironic that you are such a good representative of the boorish and egomaniacal behavior that dominates the local male population, ie the subject of this thread. "Wind up, projection, aim to please" Taking it all a bit personally, aren't ya mate? |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| cunning_stunt wrote: |
| Quote: |
| found that almost half (45.5 percent) of female high school students had been sexually molested by males, with fondling of *beep* and genitals the most common offenses. |
I simply don't believe that . Is that like those western studies that say one in two women are raped ? You believe this nonsense ??? |
It wasn't one in two are RAPED, but that one in two are SEXUALLY ASSAULTED. It all hinges on how widely and liberally they define the term "sexual assault". Did they define it to mean rape and rape only, or does it include fondling, or how about being flashed, or having a dirty joke told to them?
They never quite say exactly what their definition of sexual assault that was used. |
I know there was a case in my city recently, where a guy tried to kiss a woman's breast in an elevator, and he was charged with sexual assault. I can see how it would be disturbing, that sort of thing was pretty common in Korea, but I think that equating it with rape, diminishes the intensity of that crime.
Pretty sure having a dirty joke told to them would fall under the umbrella of sexual harassment, if anything though.
Back to the original topic. I think a lot of younger Korean women aren't really going to fight for equal rights, because being equal to the men might mean they'd have to do military service. A room full of women in their 30s and 40s might be more outspoken. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| cunning_stunt wrote: |
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It wasn't one in two are RAPED, but that one in two are SEXUALLY ASSUALTED. It all hinges on how widely and liberally they define the term "sexual assualt". Did they define it to mean rape and rape only, or does it include fondling, or how about being flashed, or having a dirty joke told to them?
They never quite say exactly what their definition of sexual assault that was used. |
Yeah . What total bollocks . As Fred said who is doing all this raping ? Are at least half my male friends rapists or are there just some really busy guys ?
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Well, assault does not necessarily equal rape. One needs to know the definition of assault that was used to come up with this 1 in 2 statistic, first of all, and then one can make some conclusions on the evidence. In any case, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that a minority of sexual deviants have possibly commited a sizeable percentage of the crimes. |
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cunning_stunt
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| How ironic that you are such a good representative of the boorish and egomaniacal behavior that dominates the local male population, ie the subject of this thread. "Wind up, projection, aim to please" Taking it all a bit personally, aren't ya mate? |
Why would you think I was angry ?
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I know there was a case in my city recently, where a guy tried to kiss a woman's breast in an elevator, and he was charged with sexual assault. I can see how it would be disturbing, that sort of thing was pretty common in Korea, but I think that equating it with rape, diminishes the intensity of that crime.
Pretty sure having a dirty joke told to them would fall under the umbrella of sexual harassment, if anything though.
Back to the original topic. I think a lot of younger Korean women aren't really going to fight for equal rights, because being equal to the men might mean they'd have to do military service. A room full of women in their 30s and 40s might be more outspoken. |
Sexual harassment is a whole issue full of bollocks of its own . I think we only to imagine the boot on the other foot to show how absurd some of it is . If a woman tells a sexual joke in front of me do I have the rights to get her fired ? I suddenly have the rights to get people dismissed because I don't like the subject matter of their humour ? This could be justified ?If a girl gives me a pat on the butt ought I to fall into a state of catatonic trauma ? Wouldn't I be expected to laugh it off ?
I'm not defending sexual abuse which is obviously a very different thing...but sexual harassment in the mild forms I've described ? Get over it .
I can promose you I'm not sexist in any sense of the word . I just recognise hyperbole and someone with a political agenda when I see one . As a white western man the world is increasingly becoming hostile to me and I defend my right to call B#llshit when people want to start telling me which jokes I'm allowed to tell . |
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cunning_stunt
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Also that 45 % of Korean girls are somehow molested sexually ? You think some of that would reflect in te society ...instead you have young girls walking around in the early hours of the night safe as houses with nobody paranoid or neurotic about this issue .
Could someone show me any credible statistic that demonstrates than any significant number of men are interested in doing anything negative towards women ? It's a myth . |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| cunning_stunt wrote: |
I can promise you I'm not sexist in any sense of the word . I just recognize hyperbole and someone with a political agenda when I see one . As a white western man the world is increasingly becoming hostile to me and I defend my right to call B#*beep* when people want to start telling me which jokes I'm allowed to tell . |
Apparently you've mistaken my political agenda. I didn't say a dirty joke on its own constituted sexual harassment, just that it certainly wasn't considered assault. Patting arses and dirty jokes aren't really that appropriate in the workplace, though, no matter who does them.
There's no need to explain that you're not a sexist, its fairly clear that you're an equal opportunity arse. |
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Scarlet13
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Changwon
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: |
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[quote="cunning_stunt"]
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I'm not defending sexual abuse which is obviously a very different thing...but sexual harassment in the mild forms I've described ? Get over it .
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The thing is how often does it happen to you? I agree that many women take things way to seriously in regards to sexual harassment. would I freak out over a dirty joke? I highly doubt it. Would I get annoyed if my boss grabbed my ass? Hell yes! It is my ass thank you very much, unless he/she has my permission they can just keep their hands off my person!
I worked at an offsale before I came out here, and EVERY single day this a$$hole would come in and ask about the state of my twins  "How are the twins today?", "You need to bring the twins out", "O the twins are looking good today"...grr...I hated him with every fiber of my being. He was disgusting!
This other dude was always trying to guess what size my boobs were, he would lean over the counter and stare at me. He eventually suggested while reaching for me that he should just touch them and see. I pointed out that I was rolling cultery and it was best not to attempt such a thing as I was holding a knife. He laughed and said "well its only a butter knife". So I suggested I would just have to stick a fork in his nuts then. He went back to his seat. Why should I have to deal with people like that?
I have been grabbed, kissed, licked, and gropped by totally random guys...what I would like to know who told them they had the right to put their hands on anyone? It is like the presence of breasts turns some men into complete pigs. One guy even told me, after he grabbed my chest while I was waiting on him at work, that it was my fault for having nice boobs!!WTF?
You may not think its a big deal but these "mild" incidents happen over and over and over again.
Last edited by Scarlet13 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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