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Plastic trash big threat to Pacific

 
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Plastic trash big threat to Pacific Reply with quote

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=10490612

I think this competes with global warming as somethjing that's gonna f%$# up our planet.
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Hater Depot



Joined: 29 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to do what Ireland has done and tax plastic bags so people stop using them so freely.
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Zutronius



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Location: Suncheon

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hater Depot wrote:
Time to do what Ireland has done and tax plastic bags so people stop using them so freely.


Or do what China apparently is doing and ban plastic bags altogether.
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OneWayTraffic



Joined: 14 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Plastic trash big threat to Pacific Reply with quote

Cheonmunka wrote:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=10490612

I think this competes with global warming as somethjing that's gonna f%$# up our planet.


The main problem here is that plastic isn't biodegradable. Rubbish has always accumulated in the grye, just now it's not breaking down. Even 'biodegradabe' plastic is still the same basic molecules held together by cellulose.

Still there's hope. Aside from any technological fix, there's still the definite likelyhood that bacteria will accquire the ability to digest plastic molecules. Plastics only been around a few decades and already in that time we've seen a nylon eating bug and I believe some scientists developed one that can eat styrofoam. Of course the existence of plastic eating bacteria will just encourage industry to look for more and more indigestible materials.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nations need to tax things they don't want and not tax things they do want.

Tax carbon, garbage, excessive consumption, large cars (hell, CARS), plastic bags, trans fats and the rest. Tax road use and encourage high-density urbanization. Build nuclear plants and subway systems with the revenue. Do not tax income (we want people to work). The current way of looking at tax policy is not suitable for modern society.
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riverboy



Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peel. I tend to agree with a lot of your economic ideas, but why the high density urbanization?
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

riverboy wrote:
Peel. I tend to agree with a lot of your economic ideas, but why the high density urbanization?


Hmm. Sprawl is an inefficient use of land and fuel. Also, I think cities are more rewarding for humans to live in (subjective) and I dislike the anomie, cultural separation and lack of citizenship (by this I mean an involvement in ones surroundings beyond the act of consumption) that seems to characterize suburban life.

Check out the Ted talk about this topic. I'm not a "peak-oil'er" but I largely agree with the guy on other opinions he expresses. His hyperbole is obnoxious, though.


http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/121
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huffdaddy



Joined: 25 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zutronius wrote:
Hater Depot wrote:
Time to do what Ireland has done and tax plastic bags so people stop using them so freely.


Or do what China apparently is doing and ban plastic bags altogether.


Double check the story. From what I've read, they didn't ban them altogether.
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riverboy



Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure Suburbia is a huge problem, but I don't think the solution is cramming people together like sardines. It creates too much congestion and loking at Asian nodels, where suburbia is not a problem, I hardaly see any solution to pollution(hey that rhymes).

Now in my opinion, having quasi self sufficient plots of land, where people produce a good deal of their own food and can utilise their own natural resources is a good answer.

I for one could care less to live in a city. Five years in Incheon now and I am here solely for the purpose of going back to Canada with a pocket full of money, so I can sem- retire in the country.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't have to be a city like New York, Tokyo or Seoul but could be more like the row houses in parts of New Jersey or Montreal. I don't think that the suburban model is responsible.

In my opinion, we are better off when we live closer to work, food, play, culture, school and each other. The suburban commute is a waste of energy and life. Again, my opinion.
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riverboy



Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. I just see a better fix being more of a rural/ small town setting. People should be responsible for producing thier own food and their should be a big push for self sufficient energy solutions like wind power.

I don't see why people should be spending so much time commuting to work these days with the internet. If more professionals were allower to work three days a week at home instead of in the office, there would be a lot less fuel consumption and cogestion.

Give me the country over the city any day of the week.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree. I just see a better fix being more of a rural/ small town setting. People should be responsible for producing thier own food and their should be a big push for self sufficient energy solutions like wind power.


Here we disagree. In so far as food can be produced locally, it makes sense to do so but once you factor in economies of scale and our desire to have a very wide variety of foods this falls apart. I'm not saying we need a retreat of modern industrial society, but just that the structure of many cities is largely wasteful and socially awkward.
Quote:

I don't see why people should be spending so much time commuting to work these days with the internet. If more professionals were allower to work three days a week at home instead of in the office, there would be a lot less fuel consumption and cogestion.


I agree.

Quote:
Give me the country over the city any day of the week.


Yeah, this is where the subjectivity comes in. I much prefer a massive city with a huge variety of activities, neighborhoods, employment prospects and nighttime activities. I also prefer short commutes with a taxi or mass transit to a long commute in a car (the worst is a long commute on mass transit, though). Just preferences. I do think that most people will elect to live in a city, which should serve your needs just fine (more peaceful in the country for you).
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with thepeel. Density is the key to proper urbanization, as is mixed zoning and proper planning of public spaces and integrating mass transit into the fabric of the city (instead of slicing it apart with freeways). Ideally you should be able to live in your apartment, walk or take public transit to work and elsewhere and do all your shopping in your neighborhood.

The problem with suburbs is that they depend on cars and freeways (unsustainable). In the burbs you can`t really walk anywhere, and end up driving to malls (the new `public space`, which isn`t really public) or wallmart etc. to shop. Commute times get longer as people drive more, and more cars clog the roads. To counter this more freeways are built, which takes up even more space, and divides communities. Downtown cores decay as people keep moving into the burbs, gobbling up more and more suburban land, perpetuating the cycle of outward sprawl (the `donut effect`).
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most trash washing up on Japans coasts originates from Korea.

Tackling the rising tide of seaborn trash
Daily Yomuori online



Quote:
"I was shocked to find that most of the garbage had come from South Korea. I felt really sad," a student of Dong-A University in Busan said while carrying a large bag of collected garbage".


http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/columns/0005/lens188.htm
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