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mr. positive
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Location: a happy place
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 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: can a teacher be fired for doing privates? |
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Just a legal question for everyone out there... if an E-2 visa holder is known by his/her employer to be doing private lessons that are not through the school, can the school fire that teacher for doing so? It seems that a teacher doing so is putting the school in jeopardy because if he/she gets caught doing private lessons, he/she will/can be deported, leaving the school suddenly without a teacher.
I did a search for this topic and couldn't find anything. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Privates done "through the school" are illegal. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: Re: can a teacher be fired for doing privates? |
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| mr. positive wrote: |
Just a legal question for everyone out there... if an E-2 visa holder is known by his/her employer to be doing private lessons that are not through the school, can the school fire that teacher for doing so? It seems that a teacher doing so is putting the school in jeopardy because if he/she gets caught doing private lessons, he/she will/can be deported, leaving the school suddenly without a teacher.
I did a search for this topic and couldn't find anything. |
Yes, you can get fired, fined, detain and deported.
It is a violation of your visa and as such is ground for immediate termination of your employment under the labor act as well as under the terms of your contract. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
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ttompatz is correct.
Most contracts expressly forbid privates. |
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waynehead
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Location: Jongno
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| I hope you weren't stupid enough to tell someone at your school you were doing privates... |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: Re: can a teacher be fired for doing privates? |
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| mr. positive wrote: |
| Just a legal question for everyone out there... if an E-2 visa holder is known by his/her employer to be doing private lessons that are not through the school, can the school fire that teacher for doing so? |
As already pointed out, private lessons while on an E2 are illegal, so being fired from your job is the least of your problems.
Private lessons "through the school" are not really private lessons. They are simply one-on-one classes at school. Unless your school is cool about it, I wouldn't expect any extra money (ie. higher hourly rates) for the class, unless you are going beyond your 120 hours/month, and even then you'd only be getting the contracted OT rate..
FYI, even those on F2/F5 can be fired for doing legal privates IF there is a clause in their contract that says they cannot do so without permission. Many universities have standing policies against outside work, even Korean professors must follow the policy. |
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actionjackson
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: Re: can a teacher be fired for doing privates? |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| Private lessons "through the school" are not really private lessons. |
This recently came up with my boss at the hagwon where I work. Actually it's the second time I think it's come up. He told me that he did privates after regular classes were done. He said that if he had a couple of more that I could do them if I wanted. He said I could do them at the school but that the students would pay me and not him. I know this is what he meant because he was making the case that I would make a lot more than what he could pay me for overtime.
I know privates are illegal but it seems tempting. On the other hand though, I feel that I might be being set up for a later firing should I not decide to re-sign. |
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Flash Ipanema
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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I called the Tax Office Foreigner Help Line last week to confirm that E2 teachers can't be independent contractors and must be registered as employees. The man I spoke to said that the school can actually choose, based on the working relationship with said teacher. I then asked if, as an independent worker I could teach privates and he said yes.
Of course, if I did teach privates and got busted, they would completely ignore that (and rightfully so as it's BS) and deport me. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: Re: can a teacher be fired for doing privates? |
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| actionjackson wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| Private lessons "through the school" are not really private lessons. |
This recently came up with my boss at the hagwon where I work. |
This comes up at my uni maybe once a year or so. Throughout the year, management takes every opportunity to tell us privates are illegal, and we'll be fired if we are ever caught doing them (yes, even the F2/F5s), and if we are on E1/E2 visas then they will also have Immigration deport us.
THEN they turn around and offer us "one on one" classes (that don't count toward our weekly hours) that pay less than our regular hourly rates.  I've never taken them up on these awesome offers (nor would I ever), but I would certainly love to know which chuckleheads are taking them. |
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| Privates done "through the school" are illegal. |
Don't talk bollocks old chap. |
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mr. positive
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Location: a happy place
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the input, just wanted to confirm what I thought to be the case. |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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How long have you guys been in Korea? There are some good points, but this thread is all over the place...
You status of sojurn covers teaching English at one location (your work address) If the director is ok with it, and you don't go outside to do it, it's fine to do extra classes at your place of employment.
Any outside work must be rubber-stamped by immy (you have to also get your bosses permission, get some documents ready, fill out forms, and mind the various restrictions) - but it's certainly possible to work a second job. (this doesn't work for private residences - rather public school after school programs and the like)
That said, outside of those two cases -- for E2 visa holders --
Privates are illegal.
There is no money to be made by doing privates. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: can a teacher be fired for doing privates? |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| mr. positive wrote: |
| Just a legal question for everyone out there... if an E-2 visa holder is known by his/her employer to be doing private lessons that are not through the school, can the school fire that teacher for doing so? |
As already pointed out, private lessons while on an E2 are illegal, so being fired from your job is the least of your problems.
Private lessons "through the school" are not really private lessons. They are simply one-on-one classes at school. Unless your school is cool about it, I wouldn't expect any extra money (ie. higher hourly rates) for the class, unless you are going beyond your 120 hours/month, and even then you'd only be getting the contracted OT rate..
FYI, even those on F2/F5 can be fired for doing legal privates IF there is a clause in their contract that says they cannot do so without permission. Many universities have standing policies against outside work, even Korean professors must follow the policy. |
Some hogwans pressure teachers to do privates for "pennies on the dollar", in other words, a small cut of what is actually paid. These are also illegal if done outside of the school, no matter what the hogwan owner/director/other foreign teachers tell you. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Flash Ipanema wrote: |
I called the Tax Office Foreigner Help Line last week to confirm that E2 teachers can't be independent contractors and must be registered as employees. The man I spoke to said that the school can actually choose, based on the working relationship with said teacher. I then asked if, as an independent worker I could teach privates and he said yes.
Of course, if I did teach privates and got busted, they would completely ignore that (and rightfully so as it's BS) and deport me. |
Wrong ministry - contact Immigration instead. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Re: can a teacher be fired for doing privates? |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| Private lessons "through the school" are not really private lessons. They are simply one-on-one classes at school. Unless your school is cool about it, I wouldn't expect any extra money (ie. higher hourly rates) for the class, unless you are going beyond your 120 hours/month, and even then you'd only be getting the contracted OT rate.. |
Some hogwans pressure teachers to do privates for "pennies on the dollar", in other words, a small cut of what is actually paid. These are also illegal if done outside of the school, no matter what the hogwan owner/director/other foreign teachers tell you. |
My previous uni offered business classes with Daewoo (all totally illegal, btw). You got paid 30,000/hr even though Daewoo was paying 80,000/hour. Once Daewoo found out, they began paying the teacher the money directly...the uni had the balls to demand "their" 50,000 cut. |
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