Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

I'm having troubles witha rather high-end PC. My own computer knowledge is limited - at best.

I'm currently working with the tech company my school uses. But y translator at school is computer illiterate. And the problems are rather technical. So I'm having communication issues. Furthermore, I'm starting to feel that the computer techs I'm working with are out of their depths deeling with high end stuff.

I'm in northern Seoul - but willing to get around if needs be. Can anyone recommend a place or service that can deal with high nd stuff including truly testing and benchmarking fixes to actually make sure the parts are working at proper efficiency. They would also need to be able to properly evaluate heat issues and recommend/install after-market fans, thrid party coolers on GPUs etc.... if needs be.

[tractor]

what kind of problems are you having? bios? hardware compatibility? heat issues?

[Voyeur]

It is complex and my only knowledge is internet forum reading - I've never been inside the box with my own hands really.

Essentially, 16 months ago I bought the following system:

ASUS P5W DH Deluxe Motherboard
Intel Conroe E6700 2.66 ghz CPU
2 x HIS ATI 1950XTX GPU in Crossfire
Enermark Liberty 620 Watt PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme Music Sound Card
150 GB WD Raptor HDD
Creative Inspire 5.1 Speakers
Logitech G5 Laser Mouse
Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard
2 GB RAM
Antec P180 mid-tower

I also now have a Samsung 2693HM 26: LCD Monitor @ 1920 x 1200 res.

Everything worked fine in the beginning aside from some soundcard issues - probably driver issues.

But 2-3 months ago my CPU performance started to get crappy. Old games would warn me that the CPU did not meet the requirements when it was well beyond them. Explorer stared taking up 30% CPU usage or more. All programs would go to 5-10x normal CPU usage aned my CPU Usage would be at 100% all the time. Games would be jerky and the actual graphics onscreen would shake back and forth. Also, the sound would sometimes just stop and nothing shoryt of a driver reinstall would get it back. And then it would konk out again. And you'd have to reinstall again.

I never installed aftermarket cooling, fans, thermal compound etc... in my computer. Everything was stock. I used no fan monitoring or fan speed changing applications. The builder said I'd be okay and I seemed to be at first. But *apparently* - not 100% sure the exact problem yet - heat became an issue. I have no idea how it became one over time.

The tech feels that the temp readings from programs like PC wizard are off. He thinks it was the GPUs that were too hot and the fact that the soundcard was mounted between them caused heat issues for that card too.

Right now, after a complete reinstall of all windows and driver upgrade, and a total cleaning of all parts (it had gotten dusty) the machine is up and running - seemingly properly. BUT the tech had to take out the sound card and second GPU. So I'm running it like this for a week to get a bseline to see if it works well this way. Either GPU runs well by itself. He says the CPU and Soundcard worked in other machines. I'm not sure if he actually benchmarked any of the parts to establish HOW well they are running - only that they run at all and at least on the surface of things, at normal efficiency.

So the goal now is to get me back up to speed and get both GPUs working + sound. People on forums have suggested that running this machine in a mid-topwer was foolish to begin with and doing so without additional cooling was crazy. Suggestions from forums have basically been:

*thoroughly test AND benchmark all the components on other machines to make sure they really aren't damaged and that individiually all are okay (thus confirming that heat really is the issue)
*But a new full-sized case - and a good one from soneone like Thermaltake
*check all your current fans and barings
*apply thermal compound to the CPU
*ADD in 1 or 2 additional fans above and beyond what the new full tower case comes with
*learn how to use a fan monitoring and speed adjusting program

But I am having trouble really communicating this to the Korean tech I am working with or making sure he is doing this. I am not sure how good he is with high end gear.

Another option is to ditch my two GPUS and get a single Nvidia 8800GTS G92 from Nvidia. A bit of a power drop, but less heat and crossfire issues. But that is $400 bucks I'd rather wait and spend once I can spend it on a single card that clearly outpowers my current crossfire set-up. But those 1950s really are hot. A single G92 would probably avoid needing to upgrade to a full tower and buy as many new fans. So the cost might be pretty much the same. No idea if a GTS G92 fits my mobo/case.
A single card also gets rid of the need to sandwich my soundcard.

[eamo]

[Voyeur]

Still not sure how everything could work for a year then not work if its heat though.

Anyone know a tech or shop that could deal with this kind of issue and implement some of the needed steps for a whitey here in Seoul - assuming my current guy doesn't work out?

[tractor]

1. update your bios to the lastest
2. install asus pc probe

http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t344828.html

3. open asus pc probe and monitor the temp of mobo/CPU with one GPU.
4. if everything is normal, then add the second GPU and monitor the temps again

now you will know for sure if it's heat related.

if all the temps seem to be on par and your still having problems. check the psu output. Maybe the PSU is faulty and it's not getting enough juice to power the other pci cards.

[SuperHero]

[Demophobe]

The 1950XTX is a complete power pig...about 240~270 w. for a single card under load. Two of these obviously needs between 480 ~ 540w., plus sound card, CPU, RAM, etc...

With a 620w. PSU, you are certainly under powered and your case is too small.

[Voyeur]

My understanding has been similar to the following post:

A 1900XT does not use 180-300 watts. A 8800GTX doesn't even reach that. Many crossfire certified PSUs don't reach over 18A on each 12v rail, and that ratting usually a peak power, not continuous.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...ion2006_4.html

The X1900XT is 108 watts, while the XTX is 120. The 1950XTX is really different only in memory, when it comes to power consuption, so we can figure 130 watts, tops. If all of this power comes from the +12v, that is still less than 11A.

-----------

So I don't see how I could be underpowered unless the PSU has gone on the fritz.

Now, is it possible that even if my PSU has enough total watts, I'm lacking enough amps or volts on a given rail etc... whatever that means?

[Demophobe]

[Voyeur]

Sorry to question you. I guess I got things wrong.

Is it me, or am I starting to thijnk that buying really high end computer stuff without knowing anything about computers, or without a knowledgeable technican you trust and who speaks your language is gonna a) cause you probelms and b) cost you money.

I'm really feeling that in Korea, with the language barrier, I should have either settled for a more average system or invested a lot more time learning about computers.

This is all starting to suck lol

I looked at a few more sites and posted on some forums. Many have suggested that I am underpowered. At this point, it is looking expensive to get up and running.

If I want to get back up and running at the same level of performance, it is sounding like I need a new PSU, new fans, a new case, replace old fans, new thermal all to get 1950XTX crossfire.

Ditching the cards and getting a 8800GTS G92 might actually be cheaper considering no need for a new case, no extra fanms (just fix what I have), and no new PSU.

Probably can't sell the 1950xtx is Korea (cost $1000 16 years ago lol) but maybe I should just eat the loss.

[eamo]

It's possible that the low-power issue could have caused all your problems. I didn't realize myself that the 1950XTX was so power-hungry.

You could maybe invest about 150,000 on a good 800w PSU and hope that will get your rig running.

Or, horrible option, ditch the the two 1950xtx's for a single new card. You're right though. No one would buy them at even 40% of what you paid for them. The new crop of GPU's are cheap and efficient.

I would try a new PSU and case. That would cost you around 200,000. As long as each of your components are individually working you should be able to run with what you have if they are put together well and configured correctly.

If installing a new PSU and case still doesn't work then at least you will have a good base to start putting new components into. An 800w PSU and decent case should last a few years.

Giving up on TWO perfectly good graphics cards which cost a lot would be sickening.

[Voyeur]

where do those load figures come from? Most sites I have looked at list ~ 260 watts as the load draw for TWO 1950xtx in crossfire - not a single.

As an aside, my new 26" samsung monitor shakes due to vibration when typing - my table is pretty sturdy. Anyone evr have a monitor where it shakes? Adding mass to the top of the table might help - like some cement cinder blocks. Or maybe something under the keyboard to absord vibration? Seen some newegg comments on smaller samsung monitors claiming similar issue - but no solution ideas. Anyone ever had this issue?

Damn computer problems keep piling up.

[tractor]

let's clear up some stuff here.

"Getting power to them cards!
--------------------------------------------------
The PCI-Express standard allows between 60W and 75W to a graphics card through the PCI-E slot itself, without the need for an additional power connector. But with more and more graphics cards coming out that require either a Molex or 6-pin PCI-E power adapter, this is a dead give away that a PCI-E card needs more than 75W to operate stably (7800GT for example). Each 6-pin PCI-E connector can provide another 75W . So a PCI-E GFX card with a 6-pin power connector attached can draw up to 150W max, with a dual card setup they can draw up to 300W max between them both.
"

For both cards the total maximum wattage can be no more than 300W.

your PSU should be able to handle those cards.

if you want a second opinion, then go to this site and use the PSU calculator:

http://web.aanet.com.au/SnooP/psucalc.php

there are many more PSU calculators on the net, and all of them are going to tell you that your PSU is sufficient. You definitely do not have to buy an 800W PSU.

[Voyeur]

Yeah everywhere I have been looking tells me that my Enermax Liberty 620 watt PSU can handle them. I think perhaps loads for crossfire/SLI and single cards were mixed up.