Korean Job Discussion Forums

[KoreanAmbition]

First off, this message board is great and has a lot of people who give very helpful information; I hope someone can help in this situation also.

I am a Canadian that is going to South Korea in the summer and I am bringing my girlfriend (probabaly wife at some point soon, but not sure when).

We both have MBA degrees from Canada and although my girlfriend speaks fluent English and Mandarin, she has a Chinese passport. Obviously this means she is not able to get an E-2 visa.

Right now, unless we can find her a job, she is going to do a PhD in Business at one of the good universities in Seoul. Note: Seoul National University is a 4-year PhD, meanwhile Korea and Yangsei (spelling?) are both offering 2-year PhD's. Basically, with her gauranteed scholarships the most I'll be spending on her tuition is about $6000 or $7000 per year.

However, she would prefer to work instead of doing PhD, and obviously I'd prefer to spend less money on something that is just to pass the time.

If someone has information about how she can teach Chinese or business of some sort to get a VISA, I would appreciate any information someone can offer.

I'm hoping that someone out there has some alternatives we could look into. Thanks in advance for your assistance.



(Second question: I will work 2 jobs to accomodate the fact she cannot work, do I require a release form from BOTH jobs to say I can work at others jobs? Or just my first full-time position? Thanks)

[ttompatz]

IF she finds a Chinese teaching hakwon she can get an E2 as a chinese speaker. The pay is about 1.2 mil per month.

She will NOT be able to join you unless you are married or she gets an independant student visa. She will not likely get a C3 visa as your guest.

When you get married you will be easily able to get her an F3, dependant family visa.

Your plan to work 2 jobs is problematic at best. You need your sponsor's permission, then find a new job, then apply to immigration to add the additional place of employment. In theory your COMBINED work hours cannot exceed 44 hours per week and your 2nd job cannot have more hours than your primary job and there are other restrictions as well.

Good luck but be aware than your plan has more pitfalls than you really want to know about. It will be difficult at best and most likely not possible.

.

[KoreanAmbition]

So that I understand you commented about her getting her own VISA. I'm understanding your point about us being married and it not being a problem. Does that mean she can visit as long as she wants? And what kind of job can she find on that VISA? Can she get a job while she is there?

Regarding her student VISA, we know 100% she will get a VISA from a university because she will get accepted, we have no doubts of this. We're more concerned if she will get a full scholarship or just half.


As for my situation, I have read on other topics and people don't mention the problems with working so many hours.

I'm probably already getting my first job at 3,000,000 won, and it's an evening job. I am trying to find something to do during the day. For me, working just 35 hours a week is going to put me to sleep. lol

That company, by the way, is pretty much willing to either give me overtime that I want or let me work elsewhere.

Are you saying that all someone can do is just work 44 hours? That's it? Oh my, I honestly don't know what else I would do all day long.

Is there any way to get better options?

Thanks

[The_Conservative]

[crsandus]

I remember reading somewhere about well-off/rich Korean families scouring their area for college educated Chinese women to be nannies for their child(ren). Seems like the parents want their kids to be exposed to Mandarin from a very early age to make learning the language a lot easier. Unfortunately, it seemed like there is a dearth of college educated single Chinese females who want to babysit foreign kids (the nerve!) I haven't a clue on what the pay was.

So if your gf/future wife really likes kids...

[oldfatfarang]

I'm probably going to get flamed by some professors - but here goes.

Have you considered that a Ph.D. from a Korean university - any university - even a SKY university - will not be worth much in the West?

Korean unis have a well deserved reputation as being degree mills - very few students fail (all about face etc). I know professors teaching in good universities in Seoul and they are amazed at the lack of academic standards in K unis.

Your wife may spend a lot of time and money - just to find she has obtained a worthless degree - inside or outside of Korea.

Refer to the recent post about the Western teacher who obtained an English degree from HUFS but wasn't allowed to teach in Korea. While this unfortunate was declined an E2 because his degree was not from one of the lucky 7 countries - it shows just how much a Korean degree is worth.

[KoreanAmbition]

Oldfart,

Thank you for your honesty. Never be afraid of being "flamed" for speaking the truth; many of us appreciate it.

Actually we do realize the PhD programs are not worth much in the west.

Seoul National however is a full 4-year PhD and most professors are from top-ranked American schools, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc, and apparently that university is ranked around 53rd in the world according to research we've done. We realize the problem with lack of degree credibility and we've talked to some of our profs here to double-check and the opinion is also uncertainty.

However, the other PhD programs she's applying to I agree with you that they won't be worth anything. BUT, in China any of those PhD's is worthy and gives you credibility. At the very least, it is another 2 years of schooling.

Second, I was going to have to pay about $6000 or so just to put her into a Korean language school, so we figured for the same price we may as well toss a PhD onto her resume. hehe


Lastly, as I said, we are both MBA's, and our reason going into Asia instead of staying in Canada is primarily for business reasons in the long-run. We are there to learn the markets and start businesses, which we already have in the works and want to learn more. In China, (when we get there) a PhD even from Korea might look decent for her and they will value it more than the west, and also, it looks good for "face". hehe

Basically, our first priority is to get her working, and if not, then I want to spend as little as possible on keeping her there. We've decided we don't want her to work in China while I'm in SK, so unfortunately we will have to deal with this situation the hard way.

However, I just told her about your reply, and she's very happy that if she does have to do a PhD that it's easy. hehe


To the previous posts, I can just say that a lot of work is fine by me. The concept of overkill and burnout might not really apply to someone coming from my situation like it does to others. By that, I'm not trying to be rude, but I have to say that I enjoy business the most when I'm very busy with it. Long work-days and work-weeks is something that comes with the territory doing an MBA so to be quite honest, I'm fine with a lot of hours.

I'm more concerned with finding legal ways to work a lot and earn money.

Please keep all suggestions coming, as so far the results have been great for me and my girlfriend.

Thanks.

[Atavistic]

[oldfatfarang]

Glad I could help. Also, the other poster is correct in saying 'teaching hours' aren't the same as 'working hours'.

I've been in and out of business (public, private and self employed) all my working life. And I can confidently say that burnout from 'teaching hours' is a very real concern - more so than working lots of normal business 'working hours'.

Teaching 30 hours a week is doable - for a start - but after a few months/years of no holidays - Korean 'cultural misunderstandings' and Korean 'flexible' working practices - many teachers find they're exhausted teaching just 18 hours per week.

Good luck in the Land of Morning Kaos. It's an adventure.

[KoreanAmbition]

Atavistic,

To answer your question:

We would go to China first however I want to earn more hard-currency in SK first. I have a registered business in Canada and have researched the Chinese markets for 1.5 years, my girlfriend worked there for 3 years prior to her MBA, and we deal with some pretty strong Chinese professors from our MBA about business ideas.

So we do prefer the Chinese market due to its size, however I feel there is definite opportunity for business in Korea, and also they pay more. Although current income should not always be compared to future potential income, I want to get banks off my back before I go out and take some chances.

I will stay in SK as long as it is useful and also I can get experience in SK while earning better money than I would in China. After a few years, i'll move to China which has lower salaries but I'll have more experience to give me stronger weight in the markets there.

Not sure answers what you were asking me.

[KoreanAmbition]

Oldfart,

Your comments are well-taken by me, and I appreciate the advice so that I can better prepare for my upcoming situation I guess.

The school I'm hoping to work for also runs extra business classes during the day which I think I will have a chance to teach, and they pay a very high hourly rate according to the recruiter I'm dealing with. So I'm crossing my fingers on that.

However, I do understand your comments about the excessive extra time on top of teaching, but I guess I'm hoping that I will teach a lot of the same types of classes so that my prepwork kills many birds with few stones.

Any idea about how I can get into more business-focused jobs? Any idea of if I would find a difference in the salary structures?

My current job opportunity offers 10 days of paid vacation on top of national holidays, which I agree is not a lot. However, an MBA is not a cheap degree and I paid a lot, so I need to get that paid off and unfortunately it seems like I'll have to work a lot of hours to do that.

Obviously I'd love a lot of the jobs people on here are always so proud of having with their high salaries and lots of vacation, but at this point the best I can find is 6 evenings a week, 6 hours a night total time at the school, and salary of 3 million won including housing, or 3.5 million won not including housing.

To me it seems like a decent opportunity, am I wrong on this one? I look forward to hearing your comments about my situation.

Thanks

[oldfatfarang]

Some food for thought.
You have to understand the Korean mentality to see what you're getting into.

First, 3 mil is a very good starting salary here. Why am I thinking your future employer may 'bait and switch' your contract? Why am I thinking that your employer will demand many more hours (than stated contract) for this salary. (Basic K. TEFL salary starts at 2 - 2.2 K.) Why am I thinking your employer might count sat/sundays in your 10 days leave? Alarm bells are ringing.

Korean 'teaching' hours can be very tiring. Korean students are passive learners. In Korea, teachers 'teach' and students sit passively listening (or not) to their teacher. (Or in bad schools they're climbing the walls.)

The teacher is doing a lot - repeat a lot - of talking. Trying to change students'/parents'/schools' Confucian expectations toward modern teaching practice (less TTT) is hard - to say the least. So expect your teaching hours to be very tiring after a while. Prep and office time is nonsense/cut & paste stuff. It's the 'teaching' hours that are the killer.

Also, be cautious when making long-term plans in Korea. Koreans' flexible attitudes to contracts, and English teaching and English teachers - invite changes on whims (at a moments notice). (Read current changes in English policy - it's changing daily). (Also read posters' comments on being fired for 'any reason under the sun that protects their employers' income: no longer 'handsome', 'entertaining' etc.)

So caution. Sure, come to Korea - but with open eyes. Don't expect long-term employment (and a long-term guaranteed income). Think about what will happen if you lose your job - and your lady's invested time and money in a Korean degree (or is still locked into finishing it when you've left the country). Good luck.

[KoreanAmbition]

Oldfart,

Yes, I am very worried about the problems that can occur with contracts.

I guess a lot of what I'm relying on is the trust I seem to have with this recruiter. I realize that what I just said probably makes me sound like I just fell off a turnip-truck, but I guess one thing I believe I've learned through my many years is that I might be able to tell when someone is on the level.

I do feel that I should trust this recruiter, so I guess based on what I've learned so far I feel I should give her a shot.

Rhetorical question: "How do you ever know that someone won't screw you over?"

Since I don't have this answer, I guess I have to go with what I think feels legit.

That's unfortunately the best answer I can give as to why I trust my current situation.

Also, it's currently early February and I won't be trying to start work until around August. Any advice on the best month to start work at that time of the year. My MBA finishes in mid-April and then in May I could see myself going into southern USA for a bit, followed by a month in China with my girlfriend, before we go into Korea.

I admit I'm with you on the idea that if things go wrong and she's doing a PhD that I just wasted a lot of money. At this point, if we can't find a Hagwon for her to teach Chinese at, it's the best option we have.

I want to start business in Asia, but I only want to get involved with that after I can wipe out my current debt; then I can take some chances. I give it one year to get out of debt, so if it's terrible in Korea for me, then I guess I can just leave after one year.

Apparently the school with the good job opportunity for me has been operating for about 10 or 14 years and has over 20 foreign teachers, so I certainly plan to talk to them and find out more specific details.

Anyways, there's a bit more information for ya. I really appreciate the feeback you are so generously providing so if you don't mind, you can keep it coming.

Cheers

[CentralCali]

I noticed you mentioned a few times you trust your recruiter. All well and good...UNTIL you get to Korea. Then your recruiter has ZERO obligations to you and you have the same level of recourse if you end up in a bad situation.

[hari seldon]

Why can't a newly-minted MBA find a good job in Canada?