|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: What do you think about the Robert Latimer case? |
|
|
Robert William "Bob" Latimer is Canadian farmer who was convicted of murder for mercy-killing his daughter Tracy in 1993.
Tracy Latimer was born in 1980. An interruption in Tracy's supply of oxygen during the birth caused cerebral palsy. As a result, Tracy was quadriplegic and bedridden much of the time, suffered five to six seizures daily, and was said to have the mental capacity of a three to four month old baby. In describing Tracy's medical condition, Dr. Anne K. Dzus, the orthopedic surgeon who performed Tracy's surgeries, stated that "She had one of the worst forms of cerebral palsy in that she was totally body involved. Her total body was involved from her head right down to her toes, so all four limbs, her brain, her back, everything was involved so she was as severe as they ... in the classification we have for cerebral palsy." It was generally acknowledged that she suffered a great deal of pain, and the Supreme Court judgment of 1997 noted, "It is undisputed that Tracy was in constant pain."
The pain could not be reduced by pain medication since it conflicted with her anti-epileptic medication and her difficulty in swallowing. Considering it too intrusive, the Latimers did not wish a feeding tube to be inserted, though according to the 2001 Supreme Court judgment it might have allowed more effective pain medication to be administered, as well as improve her nutrition and health.
On October 24, 1993, Laura Latimer found Tracy dead. She had died under the care of her father while the rest of the family was at church. At first Robert Latimer maintained that Tracy had died in her sleep; however, when confronted by police with autopsy evidence that high levels of carbon monoxide were found in Tracy's blood, Latimer confessed that he had killed her by placing her in his truck and connecting a hose from the truck's exhaust pipe to the cab. He said he had also considered other methods of killing Tracy, including Valium overdose and "shooting her in the head".
Latimer said his actions were motivated by love for Tracy and a desire to end her pain. He described the medical treatments Tracy had undergone and was scheduled to undergo as "mutilation and torture". "With the combination of a feeding tube, rods in her back, the leg cut and flopping around and bedsores, how can people say she was a happy little girl?" Latimer asked.
On November 16, 1994, a jury convicted Latimer of second degree murder. However, the Supreme Court of Canada ordered a retrial, because of jury interference as the prosecutor had questioned potential jurors about religion, abortion, and mercy killing during jury selection. On November 5, 1997, the jury at the second trial again found Latimer guilty of second degree murder. Although the minimum sentence for second-degree murder is life with no chance of parole until after 10 years, the jury recommended that Latimer be eligible for parole after one year. Because he believed Latimer was motivated by compassion, Judge Ted Noble argued that a "constitutional exemption" could apply, and sentenced him to two years, one in jail and one under house arrest.
The Crown appealed the decision because Latimer had not received the minimum sentence for his crime. The Saskatchewan Court of Appeal ruled that Latimer would have to serve a life sentence. Latimer appealed this decision to the Supreme Court of Canada, asserting that he had not been allowed to argue that he had no choice but to kill Tracy, and that a life sentence was cruel and unusual punishment. The Supreme Court unanimously upheld Latimer's conviction and life sentence holding that Latimer had other options available to him and that the minimum 10-year sentence was not excessive.
On December 5, 2007 Robert Latimer requested day parole from the national parole board in Victoria, BC. He had told the parole board that he believed killing his daughter was the right thing to do. The parole board therefore denied his request, saying that Latimer had not developed sufficient insight into his actions, despite psychological and parole reports that said he was a low risk to reoffend unless he was put into the same situation again. He will be eligible for full parole in December, 2010.
A 1999 poll found that 73% of Canadians believed that Latimer acted out of compassion and should receive a more lenient sentence. The same poll found that 41% believe that mercy killing should not be illegal. Ethicist Arthur Schafer argued that this was a mercy killing and compassion and common sense dictated a reduced sentence.
Numerous disability rights groups obtained intervenor status in the Latimer's appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada, arguing that killing a severely disabled child like Tracy is no different than killing a non-disabled child and should carry the same penalty. To do otherwise, they argued, would devalue the lives of disabled people and increase the risk of more such killings by their caregivers. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Canadian "justice" system is wonderful. Sure, keep Latimer locked up while a filthy !&$#*! like Karla Homolka is out in 11 yrs., armed w/ a univ. degree paid for by the taxpayer. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree that Homolka should never have been let out of prison...in fact somebody should do us all a favor and take a baseball bat to her. But in the Latimer case, I'm inclined to agree with the arguments of disability groups. Letting Latimer out early - IMHO - would be sending a signal that the life of a severely disabled person is somehow of less worth than that of a normal person. However, the whole case is certainly an ethical and emotional minefield. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not condoning what Latimer did. But when you compare his time with what a *beep* like Homolka served it puts the "justice" system in a pretty bad light.
Surely noone believes Latimer is a threat to society. He shouldn't be serving more than 10 yrs. when those w/real criminal minds have served less. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mosley wrote: |
I'm not condoning what Latimer did. But when you compare his time with what a *beep* like Homolka served it puts the "justice" system in a pretty bad light. |
Yes, absolutely. She got off light because the prosecutor's office negotiated a plea-bargain with her in exchange for testifying against her husband...but that plea-bargain should have been overturned on the basis that she lied to the prosecutor.
Quote: |
Surely noone believes Latimer is a threat to society. He shouldn't be serving more than 10 yrs. when those w/real criminal minds have served less. |
Yeah, I can see your argument there...
...I can't help but feel, though, that giving him special consideration really would create a double standard in society, would be tatamount to saying that the lives of disabled people are of less value. It's true that Latimer's daughter was in severe pain and had a life of misery...but she never asked for euthanasia. There's no evidence that this is what she wanted.
Latimer himself must have decided to kill his daughter knowing full well that he would have to face the consequences of what he had done. He (apparently) was willing to go to jail for life for what he did. Although I can have compassion for the situation he was in with his daughter, seeing her in so much pain...but if he was willing to accept the consequences of what he had done, then I think he should stay in jail.
But I'm not 100% comfortable with this either. It's a sad story all around. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
|
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
I only know what was in this post, so if there is other information, I could change my mind.
Given the legal status of mercy killing, I don't see what else the father could have done. It looks to me like the father is being punished for the failure of the state to keep up with legal rulings in light of the advances of modern medicine.
Yes, the disabled need protection, but people suffering constant pain, totally unable to take care of themselves and with no hope of recovery or improvement also have a right to die. I'm not being flippant: They shoot horses don't they? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Octavius Hite

Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
|
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here is the problem. I think that adults should be allowed to kill themselves, take drugs, have orgies, buy tranny prostitutes, etc etc .
The problem in the Latimer case was that she was a child and incapable of making that decision. This case was one of those tragic situations that falls into a dangerous legal grey zone. While I think he was probably in the right, as a society we must protect children who can't make this decisions for themselves.
Personally I think Karla should die in jail, but I would rather 10 guilty people go free then have one innocent man in jail. And I would rather have 10 guklity people go free than have one child murdered by her father.
Again, I agree that adults should have the right to choose life or death but with children it is much more complicated. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
FUBAR
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Location: The Y.C.
|
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Manner of Speaking wrote: |
IMHO - would be sending a signal that the life of a severely disabled person is somehow of less worth than that of a normal person. However, the whole case is certainly an ethical and emotional minefield. |
Don't want to sound too insensitive, but in this case her life is worth less. Well, maybe not less. Let me rephrase that. However, her quality of life and the way that she was going downhill so quickly provides a motive for the killing. If you speak to the letter of the law, each life is valued the same, but I wouldn't value her life as the same as a healthy teenager since we are talking mental/physical deterioration and not mental retardation or just physical disability. The girl was regressing and she was going to die. It was just a matter of how painful vs. how quickly it could end.
However, if Latimer gets off early, what's to stop every aging man/woman from killing his spouse once the Alzheimer's begins to kick in and they can't bear to watch anymore.
Personally, I think he should be free, but I do see other points about keeping him in jail. So, instead of his daughter being trapped in a living hell, he is now trapped in the living hell as a result of freeing her. Kinda ironic. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
catman

Joined: 18 Jul 2004
|
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't doubt that he should have been found guilty of something. However, the length of the sentence is outrageous. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Octavius Hite wrote: |
Again, I agree that adults should have the right to choose life or death but with children it is much more complicated. |
Agreed, absolutely. NOW MIND YOU, probably Latimer more than anybody else in this world was in the position to know what his daughter wanted...but in the case of a severely disabled person with the mental capability of a three-month-old child, who is to say what she wanted? How could anybody know this? And it just seems to me that it's best to err on the side of caution and assume that (naturally) she wanted to live.
Not only that, but twenty years from now...who is to say what might be achievable with improvements in medical science? AIDS has changed from a death sentence to a lifelong-but-manageable disease. Who knows what might have been medically possible for Latimer's daughter twenty years from now. We'll never know now. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
FUBAR wrote: |
Don't want to sound too insensitive, but in this case her life is worth less. Well, maybe not less. Let me rephrase that. However, her quality of life and the way that she was going downhill so quickly provides a motive for the killing. If you speak to the letter of the law, each life is valued the same, but I wouldn't value her life as the same as a healthy teenager since we are talking mental/physical deterioration and not mental retardation or just physical disability. The girl was regressing and she was going to die. It was just a matter of how painful vs. how quickly it could end. |
I see your point, but the problem with that line of reasoning is immediately obvious: who gets to decide the value of her life, who gets to decide the value of any person's life? It's not a decision I'd ever want to make, nor would I ever want to put the power of deciding the value of my life in somebody else's hands.
Quote: |
However, if Latimer gets off early, what's to stop every aging man/woman from killing his spouse once the Alzheimer's begins to kick in and they can't bear to watch anymore. |
Agreed. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Czarjorge

Joined: 01 May 2007 Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
|
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is a good example of how the rule of law is imperfect. It's only as good as the people who make the laws. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
in such a case the parent is the one to make the decision.
Doing what the law says isn't always the correct thing. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
VanIslander

Joined: 18 Aug 2003 Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mosley wrote: |
Surely no one believes Latimer is a threat to society. He shouldn't be serving more than 10 yrs. when those w/real criminal minds have served less. |
Yeah. 5-7 years is enough to deter others from mercy killing. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|