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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: Trying to talk my school off the ledge |
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Although I've given my school about 4 months notice, they're naturally leaving hiring until the last minute. Anyway, my boss was wondering how to hire a teacher and break it to him they want him to contractually agree to not accepting the one month severance.
Now, they're not really mean people. They just don't have a lot of experience with foreign teachers. From their POV, we get a free apartment and a larger wage for less work. And we want what Koreans are legally entitled to?
And did I mention they're only trying to find teachers in Korea. As in the ones most likely to understand the legality of the severance payment and not really be keen on passing on it?
I'm like "to honest, if you don't offer the severance payment, you will probably find it very hard to find a teacher. They won't even look at the job if you try to tell them you're not paying severance."
They actually came to me wondering if there was a legal loophole to get out of paying the other FT severance. I'm like "errr, well I think it's a legal entitlement. If he's worked his full year then like a Korean, he's legally entitled to it. Further try to understand it this way. It's something that keeps a person working the full year and being a good boy. No one is going to quit at 10 months because they know there is a bonus at the end of their contract. They're going to preform their duties because they know there's a month's pay waiting for them at the end. You really should just look at it as something that keeps people from using you for a 3 month working holiday in Korea." |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
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You should be telling your school to... "Jump."  |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| cruisemonkey wrote: |
| You should be telling your school to... "Jump." |
They've always treated me fairly. It's a very hands off school. They let me do my thing. As long the parents are saying stuff like "oh my daughter thinks the FT is very funny and enjoys his class" and not "oh my daughter says the FT touches her in her private place and she's become a bed wetter and night screamer since she started with your school", they're happy and never inquire what my white board pictures of cat heads on sticks and bunnies on a meat hooks have to do with the lesson in the book. Alas, that hands off approach also maps onto their ability to understand the needs and legalities of the FT.
Like I say, they just have funny ideas but if you explain the logic in a polite and respectful manner, they do tend to get it. Eventually. |
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expat2001
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Trying to talk my school off the ledge |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
Although I've given my school about 4 months notice, they're naturally leaving hiring until the last minute. Anyway, my boss was wondering how to hire a teacher and break it to him they want him to contractually agree to not accepting the one month severance.
Now, they're not really mean people. They just don't have a lot of experience with foreign teachers. From their POV, we get a free apartment and a larger wage for less work. And we want what Koreans are legally entitled to?
And did I mention they're only trying to find teachers in Korea. As in the ones most likely to understand the legality of the severance payment and not really be keen on passing on it?
I'm like "to honest, if you don't offer the severance payment, you will probably find it very hard to find a teacher. They won't even look at the job if you try to tell them you're not paying severance."
They actually came to me wondering if there was a legal loophole to get out of paying the other FT severance. I'm like "errr, well I think it's a legal entitlement. If he's worked his full year then like a Korean, he's legally entitled to it. Further try to understand it this way. It's something that keeps a person working the full year and being a good boy. No one is going to quit at 10 months because they know there is a bonus at the end of their contract. They're going to preform their duties because they know there's a month's pay waiting for them at the end. You really should just look at it as something that keeps people from using you for a 3 month working holiday in Korea." |
One day , korea will rule the world!
If they are looking for ways to screw other exapts , then they are probably thinking about screwing you. Even if you are a model employee and have never had any problems with them before.Something is up!I wouldnt trust them .Dont let your guard down. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Trying to talk my school off the ledge |
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| expat2001 wrote: |
| Even if you are a model employee and have never had any problems with them before.Something is up!I wouldnt trust them .Dont let your guard down. |
Ummm. I got my severance. I got my plane ticked paid. I got my final pay. Today is my last day. I'm not sure how they're going to screw me at this point. I've never had a missed pay day. They've always fixed whatever ails my apartment. But yes, I've not let my guard down, although I've also picked my battles and stood up for my position by being polite, quiet spoken, and rational. I've spent four years cultivating good will and respect among my coworkers and my immediate chain of command. I take my kids out on sundays for movies and pizza lunches. I hold wine and cheese parties for my over worked Korean coworkers. I bring everyone in the office gifts when I return from a holiday I get to enjoy because of my contract and they don't.
I don't approach issues with the attitude that my school is out to screw me over. I first work under the assumption I'm the only foreign teacher there, they don't really understand the special considerations the foreign teacher needs, and things come as a surprise to them. At the end of the day, they have to basically conclude if I was out to screw the school over with crazy claims, I would have had a thousand such opportunities.
Anyway, my point is there is a third way of looking at this. I'm certain, of course, there are many greedy hagwons that know the system and know how to take advantage of an FT. However, there are also hagwons well meaning but not really understanding of the extras the FT requires. You have to be able to read the people around you. I'm in a larger school but my coworkers and bosses and bosses's bosses and front desk people and admin people have always been kind and gracious to me (as I've been kind and gracious to them). When the local structure around you returns kindness with kindness, greedy hagwon out to rip you off becomes hard to reconcile.
So we need to consider a third way. If someone comes to you demanding $3000 they never expected they'd have to pay out, they're going to ask questions. But first grant charity that they're confused and not greedy. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the school could work into the contract a monthly severance, divided among 12 months, which could take away severance entitlement.
It's a tricky one, but possible. They could always secretly undercut the wage, raise it up 100-150,000 a month, and call it 'severance'. |
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Burndog
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| OP it is refreshing to hear someone interpret such a request in a positive way! Thanks for the positivity...it is a rare thing on the message boards! |
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rhinocharge64
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mindmetoo a sterling representation of how one should present themselves. A refreshing change to the conceit and anger I often read on here. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| They've had FTs for 4+ years and they're still so clueless? It sounds like someone needs to learn the cold, hard facts. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, it is the law that in Korea you should pay foreigners the severance after one year. It is the law. Also, I have never seen a hagwon not offer severance. He has heard of the laws of supply and demand, competition, capitalism, I presume. However, some in this country confuse simply think capitalism is greed and penny pinching. It is not quite like that. In the business world in the West and even in the Middle East, people know you have to spend money to make money. It is common sense. So it has nothing to do with us being foreigners in Korea and feeling we should get this or that. We do not have family here. If we don't have housing, we wouldn't come! Why would we leave the US or Canada for a 2,200 dollar job with no housing. We can do much better in California, Ontario, or London without dealing with a visa process? There are many annoying things to deal with like navigating hagwon owners like someone trying to make sure they have a dolphin rather than a shark. There is a shortage of teachers, and your boss is acting like this? I am not surprised. Let them go under if you explain all this and they don't listen. They are being greedy no matter how nice they are and greed often destroys you in business. Plenty of greedy people in America went to prison or lost their businesses. |
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roknroll
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
Well, the school could work into the contract a monthly severance, divided among 12 months, which could take away severance entitlement.
It's a tricky one, but possible. They could always secretly undercut the wage, raise it up 100-150,000 a month, and call it 'severance'. |
it's not tricky but it would have to be in the contract to protect themselves. secretly undercut?--there's a market range, standardized contracts for schools. i qualify for 2.3M, so they tell me: no it's only 2.2M, but we pay severance monthly so it's 2.3M? AND OUT THE DOOR I GO |
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roknroll
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Burndog wrote: |
| OP it is refreshing to hear someone interpret such a request in a positive way! Thanks for the positivity...it is a rare thing on the message boards! |
yes it is, it's best to be pleasant and tactful. many people shoot themselves needlessly in the foot with a caustic approach. |
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roknroll
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| rhinocharge64 wrote: |
| Mindmetoo a sterling representation of how one should present themselves. A refreshing change to the conceit and anger I often read on here. |
i agree with the attitude part, but the wider definition of presenting oneself in the workplace: take kids out on sundays for movies and pizza; wine and cheese parties for co-workers-->although kind and thoughtful, this may be a little over the top for some people. not related to professionalism in the class and at school. i am one for reciprocity though, eg. buying someone a gift in return. with students, treats of some sort. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| rhinocharge64 wrote: |
| Mindmetoo a sterling representation of how one should present themselves. A refreshing change to the conceit and anger I often read on here. |
Oh trust me, the back of my mind first reacts with unspoken rage, conceit and anger but then the front part talks my own self off the ledge.
Always remember hagwons also gird themselves for being screwed over by their FT. They share horror stories too. Schools that thing they've bent over backwards, given their FT things beyond what a Korean would get in any job, and then are met with arrogance and even down right anger. I got the same deal as the woman teacher before me. But she screamed at the top of her lungs every day because there weren't enough forks in her apartment. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Good balanced post from MM2.
Sorry to generalise here a bit but:
The school has had a good teacher in you. They are asking you ways to cop out of paying the small part of the severance, which will lead to only one conclusion. They will only be able to get a native teacher who has no sense at all, or has no idea about Korean Law. Teachers should look at and turn down a fair few contracts to realise what they are entitled to.
Severance, housing, plane tickets.
Said new teacher will probably not be able to keep the numbers up, bosses get angry at them, bosses fire new teacher. As you say, it's basically suicide for them. They've hired the one person who disregards such 'perks' and probably is not the right kind of teacher to follow you.
Judging by your safe stay with them, I'd highlight that's enough to get a new teacher, but make sure they pay the severance. You never know the new teacher might not even make it the first year, then they don't have to pay it anyway. |
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