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Hillary floats the possibility of a shared ticket
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stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: Hillary floats the possibility of a shared ticket

But who's on top?

Quote:

WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton is hinting at the possibility of sharing the Democratic presidential ticket with Barack Obama, but says voters still have to decide the party nominee.

Clinton says: "That may be where this is headed, but of course we have to decide who is on the top of ticket. I think the people of Ohio very clearly said that it should be me."

Two possibilities -- either Clinton has enough hubris to think she can talk the guy who's beating the pants off her into accepting second billing, or she's running for Veep. The latter is more reasonable, but the former is more, well, Clinton.

I have a hard time envisioning either scenario. Obama is playing to win and would have no reason to ignore the scoreboard (especially since Clinton's running mate would have even less role in campaigining and policy than usual -- she already has a running mate, who happens to be a former President). And if Obama does get the nomination, as the math certainly indicates he will, what would he really gain by adding Hillary to the ticket? Bigger margins of victory in California and New York? Not a big help.

She's been attacking him mercilessly these days, and anecdotally, the two Senators can hardly stand to be in the same room together. And, again, there's Bill, scene-stealer par excellence and a notoriously difficult man to "manage".

For Hillary to propose this, unasked and in public, is fairly extraordinary. I smell desperation, and I hope the Obama campaign does too.

mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Hillary floats the possibility of a shared ticket

stillnotking wrote:

And if Obama does get the nomination, as the math certainly indicates he will, what would he really gain by adding Hillary to the ticket?

Two extremely skilled attack dogs to take care of GOP attacks while he stays above it all, I assume.

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Hillary floats the possibility of a shared ticket

mithridates wrote:

stillnotking wrote:

And if Obama does get the nomination, as the math certainly indicates he will, what would he really gain by adding Hillary to the ticket?

Two extremely skilled attack dogs to take care of GOP attacks while he stays above it all, I assume.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe Obama/Clinton wouldn't be such a bad idea after all.

mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Hillary floats the possibility of a shared ticket

stillnotking wrote:

mithridates wrote:

stillnotking wrote:

And if Obama does get the nomination, as the math certainly indicates he will, what would he really gain by adding Hillary to the ticket?

Two extremely skilled attack dogs to take care of GOP attacks while he stays above it all, I assume.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe Obama/Clinton wouldn't be such a bad idea after all.

Yeah, it might be better than you expect. I noticed that Obama seems a little off his game when he gets a lot of negative coverage but the Clintons don't even blink an eye at that sort of thing.

I couldn't see it working the other way around though. Hillary's not inspiring enough and Obama doesn't have the experience to strengthen a ticket, plus he would just look weird running as VP. It would be like Cheney with Bush as VP.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:42 am Post subject:

Quote:

Obama says it is 'premature to talk about a joint ticket'

On a joint ticket:
"We are just focused on winning the nomination. That is my focus. I respect Sen. Clinton. She has been a tenacious opponent. It is premature to talk about a joint ticket."

http://www.politico.com

This stuff sure is interesting to watch.

If I were Obama, I'd take the VP. 4-8 years as vice and then the chance at 4-8 years as president. The best case, you're extremely powerful for 16 years and have a great deal of influence on the course of your country. The worst case is Obama/Clinton lose, and he never gets a solid chance again.

Milwaukiedave

Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:51 am Post subject:

Screw the unity ticket. I wouldn't vote for a ticket with her on it no matter whether she was top of the ticket or the VP selection.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:53 am Post subject:

The case for Obama-Clinton '08

Above is Ambinder's article. Below is his blog post.

Quote:

Many of my readers are rapid Obama or Clinton partisans, and so the very mention of the idea probably strikes them -- you -- as absurd. But if you can somehow separate your feelings of disgust from your brains just a bit and think it through, the premise not only holds, but the idea really does make sense. Go through the categories: politics, demographics, themes, governance -- it works. As my colleague Ron Brownstein has pointed out, they are enormously complimentary figures.

I deliberately do not address the thorny issues of, say, how Obama would surrender his ego to put Clinton on the ticket, or how Clinton would surrender her presidential ambition to join the ticket, or what Bill Clinton would do, or what closet he might have to be placed in order for this to work, but I have the feeling that smarter people than I will shortly be sorting these things out.

That's because the longer Hillary Clinton stays in this race, the more inevitable it is that she, by force of will, earns a spot on the ticket. Obama cannot ignore her demographic coalition, her breadth and depth of the support, the energy that she generates, just as Hillary surely cannot ignore -- would not ignore -- everything that Obama has come to stand for and has accomplished.

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject:

The chances for a unity ticket just receded dramatically:

Quote:

In a live CNN interview just now, Sen. Clinton repeated, twice, the "Sen. McCain has a lifetime of experience, I have a lifetime of experience, Sen. Obama has one speech in 2002" line. By what logic, exactly, does a member of the Democratic party include the "Sen. McCain has a lifetime of experience" part of that sentence?

The logic is obvious, and it ain't "unity ticket" logic. I really, really hope Obama doesn't pick this scorpion as his VP.

Milwaukiedave

Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject:

The fact is that Clinton has a bigger ego and wouldn't accept anything less then top of the ticket. Think about it for a minute, why would Obama fold his presidential campaign, a campaign everyone said didn't have a chance in the world, to put someone on the ticket who's going to only drag him down. Clinton's negatives are still sky high and her latest petty trash talking politics have proven that.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject:

Milwaukiedave wrote:

The fact is that Clinton has a bigger ego and wouldn't accept anything less then top of the ticket. Think about it for a minute, why would Obama fold his presidential campaign, a campaign everyone said didn't have a chance in the world, to put someone on the ticket who's going to only drag him down.

Because Obama cannot win this campaign without the Superdelegates. The Superdelegates will enact a compromise that would best solidify the party.

I see the Hillary-hatred is alive and well in this forum. Happily, it didn't seem to matter in Texas, Ohio, Florida, New York, California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts.

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

Milwaukiedave wrote:

Kuros, the Hillary hatred is not irrational. Any comment on her "Obama isn't even as good as McCain" remarks? 'Cause to me, it's a clear indication that she would rather tear down Obama -- even to the extent of helping McCain film his attack ads for the fall -- than give up her quest for the nomination. As someone who ranks the candidates Obama -> Clinton -> Nader -> -> (x100) -> Paul -> McCain on the issues (i.e. a typical Democrat), this fills me with loathing.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject:

stillnotking wrote:

Kuros wrote:

Milwaukiedave wrote:

Kuros, the Hillary hatred is not irrational. Any comment on her "Obama isn't even as good as McCain" remarks? 'Cause to me, it's a clear indication that she would rather tear down Obama -- even to the extent of helping McCain film his attack ads for the fall -- than give up her quest for the nomination. As someone who ranks the candidates Obama -> Clinton -> McCain on the issues (i.e. a typical Democrat), this fills me with loathing.

The Hillary-hatred is irrational if it goes as far as preventing Obama from getting into the White House.

Yes, I have a comment. Hillary is running for election. She is saying, "I can run against McCain, because I have experience. Obama doesn't." Yes, Obama has even less experience than Clinton, and much less than Senator McCain. This is less a smear than the truth.

My response to any "Hillary-is-tearing-apart-the-Democratic-Party" memes would be this article.

Let me know when Hillary gets into Willie Horton territory, then we'll talk.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject:

Quote:

the Hillary hatred is not irrational

Yes, it is alive and well and yes, it is irrational. Just look at the tone on this thread. Mdave seems like a nice guy, but look at what he said--and not for the first time. Hatred is by definition irrational.

A unity ticket has a lot going for it:

a) It would shake the process up a LOT if the two went behind closed doors, flipped a coin to decide who should lead the ticket, and come out hugging each other.

b) The party is almost evenly split over who to nominate. It looks like it will be up to the superdelegates to decide, and no one, not even the superdelegates, want that.

c) It would offer a compromise solution which IS 'change' and it would hold the women and the blacks who have come out strongly for 'their' candidate in the action through November. It could easily be marketed as 'new politics'.

It's the best solution available.

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

stillnotking wrote:

Kuros wrote:

Milwaukiedave wrote:

Kuros, the Hillary hatred is not irrational. Any comment on her "Obama isn't even as good as McCain" remarks? 'Cause to me, it's a clear indication that she would rather tear down Obama -- even to the extent of helping McCain film his attack ads for the fall -- than give up her quest for the nomination. As someone who ranks the candidates Obama -> Clinton -> McCain on the issues (i.e. a typical Democrat), this fills me with loathing.

She just did:

Quote:

As you can see, the campaign ad has darkened Obama's skin tone, while stretching the video horizontally to give Obama a wider nose.

Yikes. Check out the image comparisons (I can't post images so you'll have to follow the link). The Hillary campaign blatantly manipulated an Obama head shot to make him appear more African.

You are distorting Clinton's remarks about Obama and McCain. She was not saying that she is more qualified to beat McCain. That'd be perfectly fine. She was directly comparing her primary opponent to the other party's nominee, in an unfavorable light. Not excusable.

How ironic that you'd accuse Obama's supporters of somehow conspiring to keep Hillary out of the White House (how, pray?), while ignoring the fact that Clinton's remarks were clearly intended to boost McCain at Obama's expense.

Oh, and I'm not asking Hillary to withdraw. Never have. She's welcome to stay in the race as long as she wants, and she's welcome to attack Obama on the issues, as long as she doesn't do it by a) getting personal, especially racist personal or b) comparing him negatively to Republicans.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject:

Quote:

The Hillary campaign blatantly manipulated an Obama head *beep* to make him appear more African.

Ridiculous. The whole picture is darker, including the background. This is simply paranoia gone haywire.

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