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dean_burrito
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: Winter camp pay at SMOE |
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Can someone please explain to me why it that some teachers get paid the 30,000 per day winter camp bonus while others do not receive. I've asked SMOE in about 5 emails now and they continue to ignore my questions.
Thanks. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'll share the experience from Gangwondo, for what its worth.
EPIK & EPIK-like contracts have always stipulated no extra pay for vacation duties. In practice, however, districts & schools customarily provided supplemental pay. Quite generous too, back in the day. It was one of those extra-contractual benefits that went hand-in-hand with both parties being somewhat flexible regarding contract wording.
Variations in pay occurred, but hey, luck isnt fair (& envy isnt pretty). As the number of native teachers grew, there was pressure on camp budgets that cut into extra teacher benefits but there was still some willingness to pay some extra.
Meanwhile, during the regular school year, a small but sizable contingent of newcomers (many, I suspect, fed by notions derived from this forum) started waving their contracts at every simple request for a bit of extra attention to their students. Schools, logically, started taking a harder look at the contract themselves.
Meanwhile too, there were the complainers. The people phoning or sending like 5 emails to headquarters whining that so&so in another school had it better than them, why not me? Eventually hdqtrs got fed up.
Net result: a document to all schools decreeing no extra pay for anyone. We've gone down a similar road regarding home-study leave.
To the OP, congrats. You've done your bit to help assure equality for all. You'll still get your zero won & now likely the other guy at that other school next year too. |
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Adobe
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: SK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Good post. schwa hit the nail on the head. Don't complain...and choose your contractual fights carefully(a hour here or there to help out can be benificial for you down the road).
Note to newbies: This is Korea, not Canada/America etc...expect things to be different...in all aspects.
Adobe |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Adobe wrote: |
Good post. schwa hit the nail on the head. Don't complain...and choose your contractual fights carefully(a hour here or there to help out can be benificial for you down the road).
Note to newbies: This is Korea, not Canada/America etc...expect things to be different...in all aspects.
Adobe |
Yes, Schwa's post explains it perfectly. |
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dean_burrito
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| esetters21 wrote: |
| Adobe wrote: |
Good post. schwa hit the nail on the head. Don't complain...and choose your contractual fights carefully(a hour here or there to help out can be benificial for you down the road).
Note to newbies: This is Korea, not Canada/America etc...expect things to be different...in all aspects.
Adobe |
Yes, Schwa's post explains it perfectly. |
Are you two SMOE board members or something? jk.
Anyways I've been here for a couple of years now so I know all about how Korea is. I'm just really curious about this one. I was told during my interview all teachers got this. They brought it up and not me. It kind of helped me decide on selecting the job.
I guess I'll just head down the SMOE headquarters and ask them in person. I'll share my answer here although I suspect they won't tell me much. |
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crsandus
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Hmm as a coteacher explained it to me this winter, the school had the option of giving me the 30K a day. They didn't in the end. I'm not sure why but my school is in a very poor area and didn't charge the students to participate in the camp. I didn't mind. I had a good time at the camp and didn't have to officesit during the winter break. I just count my blessings that the administration at my school supports the teachers, my coteachers and I get along, and the students are generally respective. |
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marlow
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Adobe wrote: |
| Don't complain...and choose your contractual fights carefully(a hour here or there to help out can be benificial for you down the road). |
Choose your contracts carefully, as in stay away from Korea. Nothing will ever be beneficial for the lowly foreign teacher. |
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Mr_Anderson
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
I'll share the experience from Gangwondo, for what its worth.
EPIK & EPIK-like contracts have always stipulated no extra pay for vacation duties. In practice, however, districts & schools customarily provided supplemental pay. Quite generous too, back in the day. It was one of those extra-contractual benefits that went hand-in-hand with both parties being somewhat flexible regarding contract wording.
Variations in pay occurred, but hey, luck isnt fair (& envy isnt pretty). As the number of native teachers grew, there was pressure on camp budgets that cut into extra teacher benefits but there was still some willingness to pay some extra.
Meanwhile, during the regular school year, a small but sizable contingent of newcomers (many, I suspect, fed by notions derived from this forum) started waving their contracts at every simple request for a bit of extra attention to their students. Schools, logically, started taking a harder look at the contract themselves.
Meanwhile too, there were the complainers. The people phoning or sending like 5 emails to headquarters whining that so&so in another school had it better than them, why not me? Eventually hdqtrs got fed up.
Net result: a document to all schools decreeing no extra pay for anyone. We've gone down a similar road regarding home-study leave.
To the OP, congrats. You've done your bit to help assure equality for all. You'll still get your zero won & now likely the other guy at that other school next year too. |
Hoorah for the OP! Equality is the best policy. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Winter camp pay at SMOE |
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| dean_burrito wrote: |
Can someone please explain to me why it that some teachers get paid the 30,000 per day winter camp bonus while others do not receive. I've asked SMOE in about 5 emails now and they continue to ignore my questions.
Thanks. |
OP - when I worked for SMOE our camps were organized thru our district office. The first camp we did there was a meeting of the teachers and I brought up the q of pay and it was agreed we'd receive 60,000 won/day for the camp - I fought for that w/o a lot of support - ok - NO support - from the other teachers - who were a bunch of spineless p*ssies IMO - because frankly, if I hadn't spoken up we surely wouldn't have received anything.
who organized your camp? and what, if anything, was agreed? where was your camp held?
bear in mind now, I also taught a week or 2 (don't recall) at my own school and was NOT paid for that one. it was pretty simple tho, just 1 class and no requirement to stay at school.
just be more proactive next summer and ask up front about extra compensation if it's thru your district. if it's at your school, try and negotiate flexible times, etc.
good luck! |
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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Winter camp pay at SMOE |
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| moosehead wrote: |
| dean_burrito wrote: |
Can someone please explain to me why it that some teachers get paid the 30,000 per day winter camp bonus while others do not receive. I've asked SMOE in about 5 emails now and they continue to ignore my questions.
Thanks. |
OP - when I worked for SMOE our camps were organized thru our district office. The first camp we did there was a meeting of the teachers and I brought up the q of pay and it was agreed we'd receive 60,000 won/day for the camp - I fought for that w/o a lot of support - ok - NO support - from the other teachers - who were a bunch of spineless p*ssies IMO - because frankly, if I hadn't spoken up we surely wouldn't have received anything.
who organized your camp? and what, if anything, was agreed? where was your camp held?
bear in mind now, I also taught a week or 2 (don't recall) at my own school and was NOT paid for that one. it was pretty simple tho, just 1 class and no requirement to stay at school.
just be more proactive next summer and ask up front about extra compensation if it's thru your district. if it's at your school, try and negotiate flexible times, etc.
good luck! |
Depending on which district you are in and whether you are an elementary or middle school teacher determines what type of camp you are involved in.
My district (for elementary) did not offer a district camp. However, the district told each elementary school to conduct a 3 week English camp at their respective schools with their individual English teacher. In my situation, I had a Korean teacher in the classroom with me at all times.
I prepared the teaching materials and submitted it to the school to be printed.
My understanding (about pay - 30,000won per day) was that it would be the decision of the school to pay the English teacher or not. I was not paid.
However, I got to leave the school at 12pm everyday of the camp so I can't really complain about that.
Also, even though my district told all schools to do a 3 week camp I discussed it with my school and it was agreed that a 2 week camp would be sufficient.
Not all districts and schools with SMOE are the same. Most teachers (elementary at least) would have done 3 weeks of camp. Some would have been paid 30,000won per day, others zero. |
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maingman
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Location: left Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: .. |
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marlow wrote :
Choose your contracts carefully, as in stay away from Korea. Nothing will ever be beneficial for the lowly foreign teacher
yep, stay well clear of s korea IMHO |
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hossenfeffer
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I made over a million won at my winter camp. |
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prideofidaho
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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^
whether that is true or not, it is precisely the reason people will complain about winter camp pay.
My winter camp gave me a pet unicorn called cookies. |
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dean_burrito
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Winter camp pay at SMOE |
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| moosehead wrote: |
| dean_burrito wrote: |
Can someone please explain to me why it that some teachers get paid the 30,000 per day winter camp bonus while others do not receive. I've asked SMOE in about 5 emails now and they continue to ignore my questions.
Thanks. |
OP - when I worked for SMOE our camps were organized thru our district office. The first camp we did there was a meeting of the teachers and I brought up the q of pay and it was agreed we'd receive 60,000 won/day for the camp - I fought for that w/o a lot of support - ok - NO support - from the other teachers - who were a bunch of spineless p*ssies IMO - because frankly, if I hadn't spoken up we surely wouldn't have received anything.
who organized your camp? and what, if anything, was agreed? where was your camp held?
bear in mind now, I also taught a week or 2 (don't recall) at my own school and was NOT paid for that one. it was pretty simple tho, just 1 class and no requirement to stay at school.
just be more proactive next summer and ask up front about extra compensation if it's thru your district. if it's at your school, try and negotiate flexible times, etc.
good luck! |
Ok, I am at a high school so I'm the first foreign teacher to work there. Sometimes they make mistakes because they simply don't know. For instance I was paid 7,000 won overtime. They later corrected this and apologized.
About my winter camp, it's not very fun.
I have two three week camps. Each camp is like this.
M-F 8:30 to 10:30 -- low level students.
M-F 10:40 to 11:40 -- high level highly productive students.
M-F 1:00 to 2:00 -- principal, vice-principal, and teachers of various levels.
I have no co-teachers and no one helped me with the curriculum. I normally have 11 co-teachers and the one that does help me with things was sent away for some special training classes.
Also before the camp was a week of daily classes, 1.5 hours with students, and another 1.5 hours with teachers... but that is another story.
I've tried to ask the principal the questions I have but his level isn't very high and he thinks what I'm saying is part of the English lesson. It's funny to me but a little frustrating. I like my school but it is SMOE I have my problem with. I interviewed inside of Korea for the job and winter camp pay was definitely a subject we discussed.
As for whoever it was above that suggested I'm screwing over someone else and will make matters worse, well I don't think that is possible. Anyways I know to some of you in hagwons and what not think this issue doesn't sound so bad but even the dreadful Wonderland I worked at wouldn't have asked me to prepare this much curriculum on my own in such a short period of time.
So I'm happy for those that got a two or three week camp and I'm down right jealous of those that have no camp at all. But SMOE really needs to standardized these camps a bit more. It will save us all from unneeded headaches. |
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marlow
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| hossenfeffer wrote: |
| I made over a million won at my winter camp. |
I used to get 2.4M twice per year, then it went to 1.2M; I expect it will go to 0.0M in the future. That's a 15% pay cut of sorts. It isn't SMOE, it is EPIK. Sure it's the terms of the contract, but if it weren't for the surprise camp money I'd have packed it up after a year. As is, I'll pack it up now. The problem IS the contract. |
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