Korean Job Discussion Forums

marmaduke · Joined: 12 Sep 2007

I'm helping teach a class for the big English exam thing here and I have a few questions about some of the sample sentences.

"Her brother along with her parents ______ that she remain in school."

Is the blank suppose to be "insists" or "insist?" Is "along with her parents" a prepositional phrase and therefore not counted as part of the subject? (I would have added some commas to make this a little more clear, if that's the case.)

"There is no doubt that no one but he knew which questions were going to be asked on this test."

"He" sounds wrong when I hear it, but I can't confidently explain the grammar rules for why. Is it an indirect object?

My students may not be the best at speaking and listening to English, but they'll be better at proofreading than a native speaker if they can ace this exam. Wink

KYC · Joined: 11 May 2006

1) insist (not too sure..hehe)
2) shouldn't "but" be except?

CentralCali · Joined: 17 May 2007

1) Insists. The "along with" indicates that the number of the subject does not change.

2) "But" can also mean "except."

RobinR · Joined: 18 Feb 2008

1) Insists. Subject is singular, right?
2) Believe that "he" is correct, but not positive.

Finishy! · Joined: 24 Dec 2006

1) If it were a pronoun, it would be, 'they'. So, they insist.
2) Think of the second sentence in simpler terms:

He knew which questions were going to be asked on this test.

Him obviously would be wrong.

CentralCali · Joined: 17 May 2007

RobinR · Joined: 18 Feb 2008

Suwon23 · Joined: 24 Jan 2008

I agree that "along with her parents" is not part of the subject, but it's horribly cruel not to add commas around that phrase. And "he" is right for the second sentence, since "he" is the subject. It's true that it "sounds weird" because we don't actually talk that way in vernacular English.

winterwawa · Joined: 06 May 2007

Ya-ta Boy · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994

In the first example, no one but a very very anally retentive grammarian would care if someone said 'insist' or 'insists'. The meaning in either case is perfectly clear, so the question is essentially meaningless. There are clearly times when subject-verb agreement is important, but this is not one of them.

In the second example, just tell them to cross out 'he' and write in 'Tom'.

What's sad about this is that these kinds of questions are used to separate those who get hired or get a promotion and those who don't--and they have nothing whatever to do with competency in English.

marmaduke · Joined: 12 Sep 2007

Yeah, sorry, I should have been more explicit on what is asked for with each sentence.

In the first sentence, it was a fill in the blank one and was multiple choice. Answer key says that it should be "insists," so I was wondering if that meant "along with..." is a prepositional phrase and therefore not included with the subject?

In the second sentence, one of the underlined words is wrong. The answer key says it is "he," which I originally thought was correct, and I figured that I probably just speak it incorrectly and that's why it sounded funny, but now I have no idea about why it is wrong.

I totally agree with you, ya-ta boy, the purpose of an exam should be to assess how well you can perform a desired function. This exam assesses how well you can proofread the fine details of the English language like a math problem. It does nothing to see if the student can use the language for communicative purposes.

some waygug-in · Joined: 25 Jan 2003

Sentence 1 is a compound subject, so the verb is conjugated according to whichever part is closest to the verb....or something like that.

Her parents insist along with her brother...

Her brother insists along with her parents.....

Her brother along with her parents insist....

The second sentence, hmmm.

I'd say it should be "he himself" instead of just "he", but that's the best I can come up with.

jkelly80 · Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Location: you boys like mexico?

"Along with her parents" is a prepositional phrase, functioning as a noun phrase complement, therefore it is part of the subject.

Passivize:

She was accompanied by her brother, along with her parents.

Pro-form:

She was accompanied by him, along with her parents.
She was accompanied by him, along with them.
She was accompanied by them.

"Her parents" are a NP within the PP, functioning as a Prep. complement.
The PP is in turn a NP complement within the NP "She was...her parents"

I think I got that right.

ajuma · Joined: 18 Feb 2003 Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

In the second sentence, if you change "he" to "she" it REALLY sounds wrong.

Sorry I don't know the grammar rule, but if you change the sentence to "Nobody knew the answers except him." it makes sense.

Maybe you can find some help here?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/General-Writing-Grammar-680/index_80.htm

bacasper · Joined: 26 Mar 2007

1) insists - "along with" is a prepositional phrase and thus NOT part of the subject, technically speaking; however I do agree with the poster who said only the anally retentive would criticize the use of "insist."

2) him - "but" here is not a conjunction but a preposition, thus its object must be the accusative "him."

#1 is my opinion; #2 I am sure about.