Korean Job Discussion Forums

[justin moffatt]

Does anyone have a link and/or website for an ongoing updated blacklist for agents and recruiters? I feel it is essential to keep the community informed of unsavory agents and recruiters.

[chachee99]

I've never heard of a recruiter blacklist. Usually if a recruiter treats a foreigner bad it is posted on here somewhere. Try searching the recruiters name on this or other ESL boards on the internet.

[justin moffatt]

The search function on Dave's is useless. I think it would extremely useful to create a blacklist of agents and recruiters which misuse others or misrepresent themselves (especially for part time positions for F2/F4 or those who have legal permission).

[justin moffatt]

I find it difficult to believe there are no websites or links in reporting unsavory agents or recruiters in Korea? There are numerous websites devoted to blacklisting hagwons. Perhaps, we can create a sticky pertaining to this issue. Although, I am concerned this may create opposition with the founders of this website . . .

Any thoughts?

[poohbear]

amen to that. if people have bad experiences w/ recruiters please share. I recall 1 post where a dude did name off people, but i tried searching for it again but couldnt find it again. It'd be great if they upgrade the forum w/ a decent search engine, but i understand that can be pricey.

[normalcyispasse]

Most of the time if a recruiter is badmouthed here the thread disappears. Dave or the mods simply yank the thread as it would interfere with ad revenue. SOP, really.

[justin moffatt]

Well perhaps we can locate another website to post our concerns without having information censored for monetary and political reasons. Does anyone know other similar websites we could utilize?

[Homer]

There have been numerous such lists/websites Justin.

90% of these sites/lists vanish into the void of cyberspace for the following reasons:

1- They are not professionally run.
2- They are run by one or two people who feel they have been cheated by an agent or recruiter and hence they want to expose this person/agency and try to expose others.
3- Lack of funding and credibility due to the two points above.

A blacklist of agents and recruiters would be a good thing but it would require the following to be of real value:

1- Be professionally run (which means money and staff).
2- Be credible (which means doing checks on complaints to verify that they are genuine complaints as opposed to some disgruntled teacher who wants to lash out for no good reason (it happens sometimes)).


Those are the hard conditions that cannot be ignored.

If they are not fulfilled, you will get yet another shoddy list that will die off in cyberspace and that for the short time it lives will not be of much help to anyone.


For example, there used to be a list of bad schools/bad recruiters online 3 years ago. I was a discussion board type place much like Daves is (in format). It was filled with complaints about schools, agents and recruitment agencies. Some of these complaints were valid but many others were un-verified rants.

Case in point, I and a few co-workers checked out the site and found 15 complaints that were clearly false. How did we know? Because they were from schools some of us worked for or about recruiters we know or used.

This was a quick search, nothing expansive but it gives you a preview.

The complaint that stood out the most for me was that about a Hakwon I worked for when I first arrived. The director there is pure gold to her employees. She goes above and beyond board to help (she is now retired). I read a complaint about her school on this site that said she did not pay on time (false), she did not provide single accomodations (false) and that she abused her teachers (completely false). The guy who complained was a freak who had booze issues and got canned as a result, after many chances. Yet, his complaint was online for all to read and was not challenged.

This is just one case and similar unfounded stories are posted about recruiters as well.

What this does is pollute the entire stream. The valid complaints that would do some good get drowned out in a sea of false rants. Good schools and recruiters get tarnished as well as bad ones.

A good list would avoid this and do some REAL good. The complaints would have credibility and be targetted at bad schools/agents. Teachers could rely on this list instead of making what often are ill-informed decisions based on information that should often not be relied on....

[expat2001]

[justin moffatt]

Thanks Homer. Informative post as usual.

Having a monitored website that is professionally run with verified checks on complaints would be ideal. Unfortunately, we live in a less than ideal world. I recognize that there are many foreigners in Korea who have a bone to pick with agents/recruiters/institutions for perhaps unjustified reasons. However, that does not justify throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Perhaps if a website or sticky is created, that have specific parameters in filing a complaint about an agent or recruiter, we can begin to somewhat filter those who are legitimate and those who are not. Furthermore, it is up to the reader to make the judgement whether the information provided is fact or embellishment. This can be further addressed by scrutinizing the information, asking follow up questions and clarifications, and evaluating numerous complaints about the same agent or recruiter. One does not make a judgement based on an unsubstantiated claim, however, one can approach with skeptism and reason to deduce its credibility. In fact, numerous of my threads have undergone this process. I don't expect EVERYONE to view my claims as fact, although if I can reach a few with some information to help others, I attempt to make the effort (through my recognized particular bias and presuppositions).

As for the hidden agenda of those connected to this particular website, I honestly don't feel alllowing a blacklist "discussion" would seriously hinder business. Based on many years of frequenting the job bank here, I very rarely come across part time positions with agents or recruiters.

Last of all, recruiters and agents should have access to this website to allow the opportunity to defend or provide responses to any claims agaisnt them. I recognize Korean agents have limited English skills, however, perhaps with the knowledge that their reputation (and money) may be at stake within the foreigner community, they might be more inclined to at least occasionally visit this website. Generally, reputation exists through word of mouth among foreigner instructors here in Korea.

With that being said, I will attempt to provide an example of what might be a reasonable way to lodge complaints on this or other websites:

Recruiters to be wary of in my experience:

Yeeha Asia Training
Reason:
1) Signed a "gentleman contract" which stated two weeks notice could be given if I wished to terminate. Due to numerous requests from the employer to do additional hours for NO PAY, I respectfully resigned.
2) Furthermore, they requested I open a bank account in Korea, have the bank mail the account information to their office, and bring these documents to Hong Kong to open a bank account there. Of course, this was to avoid having to pay taxes in Korea (and prevent any option of attending to the Labour Board in Korea).
3) Refused to pay full amount owed to me after resigning.
4) Refused to cancel my E7 visa for over two months after resigning, thereby preventing me from working elsewhere.

ECC Korea:
Reason:
1) Makes contracts with instructors for 3-6 month positions. However, often ends the contract beforehand usually due to complaints from the contracted company regarding ECC Korea's poor handling of their file (this is based on 3 similar reports of colleagues).
2) NEVER pays on time if it all. The usual tactic is a small payment of 300,00won followed by promises of further payment which never arise (unless one threatens to complain to the contracted company or one concocts some tale of woe).

Yoon Education:
Reason:
1) Takes up to 30% tax for part time positions without informing the instructor.
2) Often offers employment, then changes conditions last minute.

Reena Education:
Reason:
1) Edited and proofread 1000 page document. Waited 3 months for payment after DAILY phone calls and threats to attend to Tax Office.

Recruiters that I have had positive experiences:

GLS Korea:
Reason:
1) Pays on time the agreed amount.
2) Often offers additional work if evaluations and contracted companies are satisified.
3) Fairly professional and can speak English (thereby preventing some miscommunications).

Some issues to be aware of based on my experience with part time positions:

1) Taxes. Always ask what percentage of taxes will be deducted. It is my understanding that the Tax Office permits uo to 30% deductions for part time or temporary work.
2) Always have leverage. If the agent or recruiter feels that you may leave the position, give the illusion you intend to stay. Otherwise, you may risk the possibility of not being paid.
3) Recruiters often schedule your pay period to be on the 10th of the month. Of course, you are often paid for hours worked up to the end of the previous month. Therefore, if you decide to resign after payment, you will often not be paid for hours conducted from the final date of payment and the payday.
4) Do not expect the position to be long term. Recruiters often give empty promises of lengthy time periods of employment, and/or promise additional positions if you conduct good work. These promises may come to fruition or not (don't bank on it).

Again, these experiences and information is based on my personal understanding of events that transpired. Feel free to ask questions or PM me for more information.

[justin moffatt]

Would anyone else be willling to come forth and express their experiences?

[midwest]

[littlelisa]

Those sound like hakwons and not recruiters.

[justin moffatt]

Nope, these are agents and recruiters for part time company positions not hagwons. However, I am sure the same tactics are used.

Many individuals on this website claim they REFUSE to work for agents or recruiters. However, how does one manage to locate contracts directly with company employers without an agent? Companies need to pay an agent directly (usually for tax purposes), and prefer to have a Korean individual handling the contract. I know very few individuals who work directly for companies (usually through word of mouth or referals).

[bassexpander]

If there were a blacklist for recruiters, every recruiter would end up on it.

Sure, there are bad recruiters, but as a person who knows a few recruiters, there are also some really wacked-out teachers out there who are borderline insanity cases. The smallest issue comes up, and they flip out -- badmouthing the school and the recruiter (who either fields complains from them weekly, or hasn't heard a peep from them in months).

Recruiters match you to job prospects. You shouldn't expect them to sell you perfection, and you shouldn't believe them if they promise it.

I always tell my recruiter friends that they need to stop with the "we'll take care of you" line. That's just opening them up to trouble. They're better off saying, "We'll do our best to find you a good employer, but we recommend you also research the employer and contract on your own. We can't always promise that an employer will be perfect. We'll be there to help you answer your questions through the contract, and give advice, but the contract is between you and the employer. We merely bring you two together."

Let people know the honest truth as best as possible within the parameters of the deal.